Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

no hotspotting with this trigger setup

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by tivi View Post

    where did you get the blue cones? look like the original roland blue cones on PD-100/PD120 from TD-10 drumkit thanks.
    https://www.r-drums.com/english/shop...uct-9869091893

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by violaole View Post
      What I noticed is that if I hit directly on the top of one of the cones I still get hot spot! Is this normal?
      Yes. That is the whole hot spot issue. If you hit directly on top of the piezo it will give out a much higher signal than if you hit somewhere beside it.

      Imagine you you are lying on the floor, with a matras on top of you. If someone starts jumping up and down on the matras on an area that is somewhat away from you, you will feel it. If that person then moves more towards you, you will feel it a little better. If that person starts jumping on the matras right on top of you....... Catch my drift? That is exactly how the Piezo "feels"
      Brain: mega drum. 5 toms: DIY mesh head, side-mounted DIY triggers. Snare: 14" 682 head, DIY crossbar trigger. 2xDIY beaterless BD pedal. .Cymbals: Crash: 2x 16" brass: 2 zone. Ride: 20" brass: 2 zone. Hi-Hat: 14" 1 zone DIY Control pedal + Pearl H900 stand. + drum rack:

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Viperr View Post

        Yes. That is the whole hot spot issue. If you hit directly on top of the piezo it will give out a much higher signal than if you hit somewhere beside it.

        Imagine you you are lying on the floor, with a matras on top of you. If someone starts jumping up and down on the matras on an area that is somewhat away from you, you will feel it. If that person then moves more towards you, you will feel it a little better. If that person starts jumping on the matras right on top of you....... Catch my drift? That is exactly how the Piezo "feels"
        This make me fell better...
        Anyway, the three cone system is a great improvement comparing with the traditional center cone system!

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by violaole View Post
          I finally connected everything following the scheme in the picture, it works great for response! What I noticed is that if I hit directly on the top of one of the cones I still get hot spot! Is this normal?
          Have you connected the piezos in parallel, or series? I'm askin because I'd expect hotspots in parallel wiring still, as the voltage is the sum of all three, whereas in a serial fashion all three need to send a signal at once in order to have a resulting trigger pulse. Apart from that, I think the resulting signal of three in parallel can irritate the triggering algorithm if it was only designed to look at a single waveform and thus only check for basic zero crossing. With wavefronts in parallel you have different timings across the head and thus different phase responses and zero-throughs.

          Have you inspected that on a scope when building it?

          MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (DIY hall-sensor based hihat, low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3), Triggera 10" splash
          Gibraltar 9607NL-DP Legless Hi Hat, Intruder Double Pedal
          Shure SE215 in-ears w. CustomArt silicone tips

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by sascha View Post

            Have you connected the piezos in parallel, or series? I'm askin because I'd expect hotspots in parallel wiring still, as the voltage is the sum of all three, whereas in a serial fashion all three need to send a signal at once in order to have a resulting trigger pulse. Apart from that, I think the resulting signal of three in parallel can irritate the triggering algorithm if it was only designed to look at a single waveform and thus only check for basic zero crossing. With wavefronts in parallel you have different timings across the head and thus different phase responses and zero-throughs.

            Have you inspected that on a scope when building it?
            Hi Sasha,
            Well, the connection is made in parallel (common ground for all negative impulse of piezo, positive of head piezo to the tip and positive of rim piezo to the ring).
            The result is very good, the only thing I noticed is the hot spot when hitting directly on the top of the piezo, but is not an issue because I never hit there during normal performance. The center response is very accurate, probably the module is capable to manage that not-standard waveform.
            And no, I didn't inspect in anyway with any instrument. Just tried and it worked!
            I will make a video soon (probably in the weekend) with the behavior hitting on all the surface of the head/rim.

            Comment


            • #51
              Ok, but I'm pretty sure you won't have a hotspot issue at all if you'd wire up in series. The waves travel so fast over the surface it would result in all piezos sending out a combined signal no matter where you hit. The overall voltage amplitude would be more even, although the attack would look different depending on whether rim or center. This can be best observed on a scope, of course.

              A word on the pos/neg polarity: you can never be sure. Piezo polarity is random, and can vary on batch or individual piezos. You'd have to test each one on a scope to be sure. This is especially important when used in parallel, and less when in series. If it works in your case, you're just lucky.

              (which brings me to the point that a scope is a must-have for any DIY, and old ananlog scopes are almost the price of a lunch meal these days. Without one you're steering blindly and don't know how much you could improve it or make it more reliable.)
              MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (DIY hall-sensor based hihat, low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3), Triggera 10" splash
              Gibraltar 9607NL-DP Legless Hi Hat, Intruder Double Pedal
              Shure SE215 in-ears w. CustomArt silicone tips

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by sascha View Post
                Ok, but I'm pretty sure you won't have a hotspot issue at all if you'd wire up in series. The waves travel so fast over the surface it would result in all piezos sending out a combined signal no matter where you hit. The overall voltage amplitude would be more even, although the attack would look different depending on whether rim or center. This can be best observed on a scope, of course.

                A word on the pos/neg polarity: you can never be sure. Piezo polarity is random, and can vary on batch or individual piezos. You'd have to test each one on a scope to be sure. This is especially important when used in parallel, and less when in series. If it works in your case, you're just lucky.

                (which brings me to the point that a scope is a must-have for any DIY, and old ananlog scopes are almost the price of a lunch meal these days. Without one you're steering blindly and don't know how much you could improve it or make it more reliable.)
                Hi Sascha et All...

                here's the video with the result of my project... give a look and tell me what you think!!

                Is not bad... right?

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDb2TONDVAo&t=5s

                Comment


                • #53
                  Well, if it works with the Mimic, then you've got a winner there
                  However, I think four 35mm piezos for the rim detection is overkill. I would try only two instead, on opposite sides, and having them wired up in series, not parallel. I would also try series connection for the three cones, if you're lucky then there's no hotspot at all then, since all voltages would even out each other (more or less). Of course one should try find this out with a scope, or at least record the raw waveform in a DAW.
                  I have a dual-piezo setup in my 16" kick, mounted close to the rim left & right, and these capture the entire mesh evenly. In parallel, I could see two spikes on the scope or the waveform taking up a strange combination, depending on where I hit. With series wiring there is only one spike, which (theoretically) is more exponential but should still be sharp enough in its slew rate to make detection easy.
                  Of course you have less voltage with series setups, unlike parallel addition. But piezos of this size are 'hot' anyway, maybe even too much at times.
                  MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (DIY hall-sensor based hihat, low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3), Triggera 10" splash
                  Gibraltar 9607NL-DP Legless Hi Hat, Intruder Double Pedal
                  Shure SE215 in-ears w. CustomArt silicone tips

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X