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Triggering low volume cymbals... worth a try, or a fools mission?

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  • Triggering low volume cymbals... worth a try, or a fools mission?

    Hi all! I currently have a jobeky kit with roland cymbals, but I'm looking to change the cymbals to something more realistic. Not a fan of the Gen 16's, so I'm considering getting the low volume cymbals and triggering them so they work with my kit. I've seen people have tried various methods of doing this with mixed results, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get all the parts I need here in the UK to even get started. I'm also not in the least bit technologically minded, so if it were a difficult job I should probably steer clear. Anyone tried doing this, and can advise on an easy method that actually works? And also where I could get the parts I would need in England?

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    If by "realistic" you mean you want something more like an acoustic cymbal, and you have Jobeky already, howabout https://jobekydrums.co.uk/product-ca...s/jobeky-dark/
    (ps. Jobeky does Swiss Cheese cymbals as well)
    *** Never buy a module without MIDI IN ***
    Yamaha & Roland modules. DTX,TM-2, EC-10m, SP-404. Multi12. TrapKat. ControlPads. Octapad, SamplePad, Wavedrum. Handsonic. Dynacord RhythmStick. MPC. Paiste 2002/Signatures. Cajons. Djembes. Darbuka. Windsynth. MIDI Bass. Tenori-on. Zoom ARQ. Synths. Ukes.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by electrodrummer View Post
      If by "realistic" you mean you want something more like an acoustic cymbal, and you have Jobeky already, howabout https://jobekydrums.co.uk/product-ca...s/jobeky-dark/
      (ps. Jobeky does Swiss Cheese cymbals as well)
      I've seen the dark bronze range, but I'm hoping for a less expensive option! I'm definitely thinking of using their low volume cymbals though.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by bel23 View Post

        I've seen the dark bronze range, but I'm hoping for a less expensive option! I'm definitely thinking of using their low volume cymbals though.
        Just checked out their LV cymbal pack. They do look very good.
        Last edited by jpsquared482; 09-02-17, 05:43 PM.
        ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jpsquared482 View Post

          just checked out their LV cymbal pack. They do look very good. You would have a hard time beating that price making your own from LV cymbals and triggers.
          Sorry, I don't think I understand your post. A hard time beating what price? I agree that their low volume range look good, I would definitely consider getting them and adding triggers (if I can get the parts and work out how to do it). For a full set of their dark bronze cymbals you're looking at over 900 - that's the price I'm looking to beat!

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          • #6
            You could buy some low volume cymbals and some trigger kits from Jman: http://www.stealthdrums.com/purchase22.html
            MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo Buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. Kit pics thread

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bel23 View Post

              Sorry, I don't think I understand your post. A hard time beating what price? I agree that their low volume range look good, I would definitely consider getting them and adding triggers (if I can get the parts and work out how to do it). For a full set of their dark bronze cymbals you're looking at over 900 - that's the price I'm looking to beat!
              My bad. I thought their LV cymbals included triggers.
              ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ignotus View Post
                You could buy some low volume cymbals and some trigger kits from Jman: http://www.stealthdrums.com/purchase22.html
                Nice, I will look into that. Thank you!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jpsquared482 View Post

                  My bad. I thought their LV cymbals included triggers.
                  Ah, gotcha! No worries

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                  • #10
                    I went the route of Zildjian LV cymbals with Pintech RS-5 triggers and so far I would say it's okay for crash cymbals but the ride is having some problems as it vibrates so much that it has been hard to stop false triggering.

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                    • #11
                      I've gone that route lately making myself 2 crashes, though it's still a work-in-progress thing. Here's how I did it:

                      - bought 2 very cheap 14" low-volume crashes on Alibaba (directly from TongXiang, 35USD in total. I'm from Germany, they have an Agent who shipped it even for free, from Hamburg, within a week). The crashes look like being sort of a copy of the first Gen16. Very rigid, pure acoustic sound is better than I expected. Although, build quality / finish could be better, some leftovers along the rim that I had to peel off, and the holes on the underside are not rounded-off (unlike the quite-nice top finish). But nothing that I would complain of, especially not for the price paid.
                      - got myself 1m of transparent PVC, 3mm thick, food-safe quality (so doesn't evaporate anything toxic)
                      - the cymbals have 2 areas with the manufacturer's symbol on opposite sides. Perfect for placing 2 piezos on the bottom
                      - glued the PVC at the bottom, covering the entire surface. Dampens the sustain completely. In hindsight, I think it could be way less than 3mm, maybe even 1mm is already enough, 3mm makes the cymbal quite heavy.
                      - glued a membrane switch by Myrk on the PVC along the rim
                      - glued the 2 piezos on the PVC, using ~1mm thick adhesive double tape (-> it's soft, acting as an additional lowpass filter). It could be that, when using other PVC thicknesses, this needs adapting. I have a digital lab scope that was very helpful finding piezos, materials and placement. (without sufficient dampening, the insanely fast waveform travel along a metallic surface (wave of speed > 3000m/s, typically) and the chaotic reflection patterns can easily drive a trigger algorithm crazy...)
                      - piezos are MZ 20380 BI, 20mm, resonance @ 3.8kHz. Experimented with 27 & 35mm, but tracking was way worse. 20mm were also inside my Markdrum cymbals, and since my DIY crashes' signals still need to go to their C boards' ADCs, I have a quite similar behaviour now.
                      - glued & screwed a small plastic enclosure under the crash. Contains two 1/8" stereo jacks. In my case, the 2 piezo signals leave the cymbal through 1 stereo jack, since they have seperate ADC channels on the original PCB (which, btw., now resides on its own enclosure attached to the rack, at the size of a cigarette pack). The other jack is for the membrane switch.

                      Important thing about the PVC 'coating': PVC is soft plastic, it contains additives that - over time - immerse into the glue. Tried different types of super glue first, but it went loose after a while. I'm now using special soft-plastic glue. At the moment, this seems to work, but I'll have to wait & see, since it's all subject to force, vibration, twists etc.

                      Overall, the playing feel is great, and sensitity with soft strikes is greatly improved, and it's well-balanced along the entire surface. Sure, stick impact is a bit louder in the higher frequencies (although I'm using nylon tips, maybe I'll try wood). But it's not *that* louder than rubber, in total, just a bit, and more 'direct'.
                      (I've tried with a regular 12" bronze splash previously but, although completely dead sustain-wise - the impact noise was unbearably loud for home/night-time practice.)
                      Last edited by sascha; 09-06-17, 07:26 AM.
                      gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
                      band: http://theboardmusic.com

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                      • #12
                        Wow! What a great find! I'd be very interested in knowing in more detail how you purchased the cymbals - did they accept selling them directly to you, did they propose the agent or did you have to find one yourself?

                        Also - does the edge switch also function as an edge trigger or is it just for choking?

                        Cheers and congratulations, they look great!
                        MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo Buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. Kit pics thread

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                        • #13
                          I purchased 2 of these:
                          https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...614720443.html
                          It's the company directly, not a reseller or agent. I chatted with 'Amy Fan', seems one of their main contact persons. There's also an account of that name on youtube.

                          The minimum qty. is stated 50, but I asked them if I could purchase just 2 as a private person. Was no problem, I guess they're just more expensive, but still cheap nonetheless.
                          You just can't expect Zildjian quality for the price, that should be obvious. But hey, for triggering...
                          (I heard good things about their regular cymbals, though.)

                          Purchase was done through Paypal, they gave me the name where it should go to, I processed it and told them, and they said they'll let their German agent know, and he'll will contact me for shipping costs. But the latter didn't happen, instead that guy just sent me the items, for free. He seemed to be a drummer himself, as the box had Pearl & Meinl cardboard remains as filler material

                          The edge switch is just for muting, in my case, as the MarkDrum crashes are 1-zone only. But I'm planning to do a ride later on (hopefully). Myrk said that it *could* work when attached on the underside, since those low-volume cymbals do quite some bending which could close the switching contact. Haven't tried that but maybe it's not perfect, as banging the rim would be a highly nonlinear thing, presumably, therefore a threshold.
                          Last edited by sascha; 09-06-17, 01:18 PM.
                          gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
                          band: http://theboardmusic.com

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                          • #14
                            Thanks very much for the info! I'm going to get in touch to see if they will ship to Spain. Yeah, not very concerned about the sonic qualities.

                            I asked about the edge switch because I saw someone else claim it also worked as an edge switch due to the flex of the cymbal. I have a membrane switch lying around so I might try it.

                            Cheers!
                            MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo Buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. Kit pics thread

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                            • #15
                              Just got a quote from the Alibaba company: $125 for a pair of hi hats w/shipping to Spain - shipping alone was about $65... Might as well get some Zildjians! Looks like you got lucky, someone made a mistake somewhere, or I spoke to the wrong person...

                              Cheers anyway!
                              MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo Buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. Kit pics thread

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