Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

El Cheapo buttkicker

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by Intruder View Post
    I use it when I want to feel the bass kick my butt.
    Make a difference? Only to my butt. LOL
    Dont need it if the sub is turned up enough.

    Donít really need it anytime . Itís a toy really.
    Thanks. I use ears now and usually play large venues so you feel it not matter what. The small venues suck though, thinking a thumper would help.
    TD50 Digital Pack, TD30 and TD9 Modules, custom made pads, Gen16 crashes, and hats plus a few other things that I'm not sure what to do with or why they're still in my kit. Bands: Espada http://www.musicaespada.com/ and JamCo https://www.facebook.com/JamcoEntertainment, https://www.jamcoband.com/

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by ignotus View Post
      I think there's a difference between stage use and home use. On stage it's supposed to be useful to help you keep time when there's a loud stage volume and maybe the actual sound of the kick gets lost in the blur of sound. In this case you'd use it at a much higher level and maybe these 'cheapo' solutions don't cut it. At home, using it at a subtle level, it adds to the perception of bass frequencies. After some time using it I've tried turning it off and I do find I miss it. It's just a gimmick, but it does enhance the overall playing experience.
      I don't agree with this at all. My understanding is it's designed for use with in ears where the low end is not always there. So you "feel" the low end the ears are not providing. Keeping time has nothing to do with thump. If there is a loud stage volume, your drums should be part of that volume. Even when I can't hear, it does not effect my time. Luckily for me, my timing sucks anyway so who cares, lol.
      TD50 Digital Pack, TD30 and TD9 Modules, custom made pads, Gen16 crashes, and hats plus a few other things that I'm not sure what to do with or why they're still in my kit. Bands: Espada http://www.musicaespada.com/ and JamCo https://www.facebook.com/JamcoEntertainment, https://www.jamcoband.com/

      Comment


      • #78
        They were originally made to enhance the experience of watching movies on the big screen (think explosions). Always have been a gimmick. If done correctly you can tell the difference between a tom and a bass.
        These really don't have that capability and work best with a deep bass sound.
        If your in ears don't give you the lows you didn't spend enough on them. LOL
        It's just an enhancement toy. Like a vibrator for drummers! LMAO

        "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

        Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

        Comment


        • #79
          Excellent design!!

          Comment


          • #80
            Since this thread was bumped...

            I happen to own a Pearl Throne Thumper now (also known as Buttkicker Advanced - with a different paint job and clamp) and I find it to be one of the most significant positive investments you can make for e-drumming / audiophiles.

            Pearl's solution with their amplifier is currently still the best value transducer available on the market.

            I've done my research on this; I know the competition, and although I can't account for entire US market, I can say for sure that for the European market at least, DIY solutions that rival the THMP-1 are more expensive, only better for individual circumstances (like fixed installations) not as presentable, or convenient, and requires higher base knowledge about electronics.

            The weaker Gamer2 / Mini transducers are just too weak to consider fit for purpose so I discount these.

            There are some drawbacks and comprises with Pearl's solution of course, but considering the cost, it's fair for what you get. The next solution up (using the LFE model) is more than double the price!

            There are so many remarks online containing misinformation on this subject, not nearly enough people are talking about this, so it's hard for me not to write a few paragraphs more. But I will stop since this thread is about the DIY solutions at it's heart.
            ♦ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ♦ MegaDRUM + Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ♦ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ♦ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring
            Community Drum Module Document
            PA Specifications (wip)

            Comment


            • #81
              I can understand the need for something like the Throne Thumper for live use (be it for 'feeling' more bass onstage, keeping time, whatever...) as you're surrounded by much louder noise so it makes sense that you'd need more power. But for home use - Kabonfaiba, at what strength do you use it at home? I use mine at quite low settings with a 50w bass shaker and it's more than enough. I can crank it up to the point where I can literally feel it in my face. Feel free to expand on your thoughts because I'm genuinely interested in learning more about the subject. I guess higher quality transducers can give a more powerful 'kick' at lower frequencies, creating a different kind of overall perception than that produced by cheaper transducers.
              MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo Buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. Kit pics thread

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Intruder View Post
                They were originally made to enhance the experience of watching movies on the big screen (think explosions). Always have been a gimmick. If done correctly you can tell the difference between a tom and a bass.
                These really don't have that capability and work best with a deep bass sound.
                If your in ears don't give you the lows you didn't spend enough on them. LOL
                It's just an enhancement toy. Like a vibrator for drummers! LMAO
                They have low end but you don't feel it in your chest the way you do with subs and monitors. I still use a sub on bigger gigs for the thump on stage. But agreed if using cheap ears, I upgraded to four drivers recently and wow!
                TD50 Digital Pack, TD30 and TD9 Modules, custom made pads, Gen16 crashes, and hats plus a few other things that I'm not sure what to do with or why they're still in my kit. Bands: Espada http://www.musicaespada.com/ and JamCo https://www.facebook.com/JamcoEntertainment, https://www.jamcoband.com/

                Comment


                • #83
                  My ears have 3 drivers. All I could afford. They work great.
                  "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

                  Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    ignotus

                    On simple terms, you are correct. The bigger transducers give you a more deep slam effect. Similar to the difference between the type of bass you feel from a 8" and 12" PA monitor. The primary reason being the mini, advanced and theatre transducers are moving an increasingly heavier mass. The higher frequencies vibrate with authority and the lower frequencies hit with weight, but in a way that the higher frequencies continue with a distinct level of articulation and fading resonance. i.e. you can feel kick, snare, high and floor toms apart as you would expect.

                    I have to correct myself actually due to my next point; transducers move sound waves through solid objects to produce their effects. The strength of the effect has a direct correlation to how well it can transfer it's energy into the object it's attached too.

                    So I think the lower power models are still going to deliver good point vibrations, (there will be a difference with toms and kicks) but bolted / full contact mounting is going to be crucial, or those subtle details will be lost.

                    They work best in their upwards (spinal) orientation as Buttkicker recommends. The bigger models can really suffer with loose or poor mounting though which leads a lot of reviewers to think they are weak, when really a tiny wobble in the mount is enough to lose 50% of the energy transfer. My critic is solely with the pole clamp here, not those who have managed to drill theirs literally under the cushion.

                    Worth mentioning the transient response is impressive on the Advanced / THMP-1. Like a premium speaker driver, it's tight and stops dead. Initially with the crossover at 50hz you will think the bass arrives late to the ears compared to the satellites. This phenomenon is the same with subwoofers playing really low frequencies, and leads me onto my next point, source.

                    Transducers are really very transparent. There's no DSP like compression or EQ. The frequency response is very dependant on what you put in. A good mix is essential because depending on what you feed it, you might get incoherent vibrations and a bad impression of the technology, when really it's just revealing what your listening too.

                    E.g. The kick drum transients tend to happen at higher frequencies than you think, so although it feels cleaner on a busy track to high cut upper harmonics, doing so will lose the transient detail and the kick starts to feel late, to the ears. I've not encountered anybody with that criticism though yet.

                    In reply to your question, I'm using 50% for music riding (which I hope is unity gain) and 20-30% Windows volume - pretty low. It's not clear how Pearl's class AB amp is applying the power, but it really helps if you make sure your transducer amp is getting a 0 dB pre-amp level, so you aren't running it harder than it needs to be.

                    With ASIO / VST drumming (which is forced 100% software volume) I turn the amp down to about 25%. My double kick tom fills start blending into a single vibration at higher power, but it depends a lot on the kit, the source, the effects, etc.

                    50% amp with 100% software volume literally gives me blurry vision. So you can very easily go overkill and lose the purpose as a monitoring tool, exactly like large subwoofers in untreated rooms.

                    So it will distort... and I'm sure some of this can be solved by going up to the theatre model and accompanying amp, but then, how much are you spending, and why aren't you buying better PA equipment instead?! I'm pretty confident the Advanced model is the sweet spot given the next investment is more than double.

                    Honestly though, whose mixing at gig volumes?! You can tell what's a muddy with the THMP-1 at minimal volumes.

                    I also only intend to use this at home because it's just too much to travel with. Yet another thing only drummers have to lug around!

                    Let me know if you have any questions specifically about the THMP-1 btw, because I haven't talked about it's flaws, or the other solutions as of 2018. Primarily for the reason I think everybody should own one in their lives.
                    ♦ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ♦ MegaDRUM + Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ♦ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ♦ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring
                    Community Drum Module Document
                    PA Specifications (wip)

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Kabonfaiba

                      Cheers, that's a very detailed response. Yes, the mounting of the transducer is very important. I found that mounting it under the rear or the front of the seat made a big difference. My stool has a backrest and I found that if the transducer was mounted under the rear side the vibrations just went straight up my back and it didn't feel right at all. I also tried mounting it to the shaft with a homemade clamp and it was too weak, with a lot of the energy going straight down into the floor. So I reckon that while very weak in comparison to a Buttkicker or equivalent, these cheap DIY solutions bolted directly to the seat are far more efficient in transferring energy. Still, If I find a good deal some day, I would like to upgrade or add a transducer (or two ).

                      Also, as you say, the source audio and choice of instrument in the VST can make a huge difference to how the transducer behaves. I was quite surprised to find that my rear end is now better at picking up differences in the lower frequencies than my ears are!

                      I'm sure those powerful Buttkickers and similar perform better, but like with most things, the law of diminishing returns applies. Does a Ä350 Buttkicker perform 7 times better than a properly-rigged Ä50 DIY setup? I seriously doubt it. Of course, if you're looking for high-end performance and gear, you're going to have to throw money at it, there's no other way around it, whether it's DIY or ready-made products. I think the average DIY-inclined, home-noodling edrummer's backside will be happy enough with the cheaper solutions described in this thread, though at the same time it's good to have insight from those who own the real deal.
                      MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo Buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. Kit pics thread

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X