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Positional sensing with side-mounted trigger

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  • Positional sensing with side-mounted trigger

    I thought I'd share this:



    I was trying out a side-mounted trigger in the snare and it turns out PS actually works. I think the foam ball in the centre has something to do with it (it's there to dampen the head to prevent double triggering), making the head vibrate in a certain way that makes PS possible, because without it it doesn't work, but I now have the best of two worlds: no hotspot in the centre and PS to boot!

    The module is a MegaDrum, I can't say if this would work with a Roland module.
    Megadrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY 2 & 3-zone cymbals, DIY hall-effect 3-zone hi-hat, El Cheapo buttkicker, DIY trigger beaters on DIY longboard/direct drive modded pedals. DIY IEMs. Some kit pics/history.

  • #2
    Amazing, if positional sensing was going to work with side-mounted triggers it was bound to be Megadrum lol.

    Which Pos Level did you use; 1, 2 or 3?

    and what was your Low and High?

    I'm not Dmitri, and I don't exactly know what MD is looking for in the waveforms, but if it works it works!
    ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
    ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
    PA Comparison Sheet

    Comment


    • #3
      Ha ha! Right there at the cutting edge

      Pos Level is 2, Low 8 and High 14. But I find these values vary wildly and have to be reset with the smallest change in cone foam, height, head tension, etc. which really makes my values meaningless for anyone else.
      Megadrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY 2 & 3-zone cymbals, DIY hall-effect 3-zone hi-hat, El Cheapo buttkicker, DIY trigger beaters on DIY longboard/direct drive modded pedals. DIY IEMs. Some kit pics/history.

      Comment


      • #4
        Not completely meaningless! I just wanted to understand the range of sensitivity you had.

        I'm also using Pos Level 2, but my Low is 14 and High 28. This being on a 12inch Diamond snare with centre mounted "pillar style" piezo.

        I have my Min scan at 40 btw, about as low as I feel I can go, to make sure I get a reliable buzz roll of edge samples, and the CC data doesn't start jumping about.

        There are so many unique variables all of us have... sharing data feels a little less like I'm in the dark about my calibrations, you know?
        ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
        ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
        PA Comparison Sheet

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow, if this works with Roland modules you may have just found the holy grail of v-drums.

          You had better patent it before Roland does.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Overtorque View Post
            Wow, if this works with Roland modules you may have just found the holy grail of v-drums.

            You had better patent it before Roland does.
            I quite agree... Must test it one day on my TD-12

            Comment


            • #7
              Very sweet. I'm building an A2E kit with Roland external triggers and mesh heads, and a MegaDrum 56 w/positional sensing board. I was always under the impression that positional sensing wasn't possible with side-mounted triggers, be they internal or external. But evidently it can be done. Do you know if external triggers would work similarly? They're the dual zone Roland RT-30HR. Thank you.

              Respectfully,
              Brian Jackson

              Comment


              • #8
                Very nice ignotus! Seems to work great!

                Best Regards

                Angr77
                Pearl CrystalBeat and Sonor Safari, Roland CY-14/13R/15R/12CR,RT-10/30,BT-1,VH-11/12/13 & KD-10, Dingbat,Triggera D14, D11, ATV AD-h14, PCY-155, 120MHz MD with PS board, 2box 3/5/5MKII, dd4SE, Yamaha DTX502, Addictive Drums 2.1.19. All ADpaks, Microsoft Surface PRO, Macbook, Pearl Throne Thumper, Zourman HH & Ride Conv Kit www.zourman.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                  There are so many unique variables all of us have... sharing data feels a little less like I'm in the dark about my calibrations, you know?
                  Yes, it's a bit like sharing GPS locations while blindly stumbling around in a dense, thick fog... but that's the nature of the beast


                  Wow, if this works with Roland modules you may have just found the holy grail of v-drums.

                  You had better patent it before Roland does.
                  Talking to my local patent clerk as we speak...

                  Do you know if external triggers would work similarly? They're the dual zone Roland RT-30HR. Thank you.
                  I have no idea - the only way to find out is to test them. It needs to be reproduced by others to see whether it is actually something that can be reliably achieved, rather than just being a one-off result of pure fluke.

                  Very nice ignotus! Seems to work great!
                  Thanks Angr77. It does work pretty well, though as it's a 10" pad, the transition isn't as smooth and gradual as it would be on a bigger pad. That said, it works pretty much as well as it ever did with a central trigger.
                  Megadrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY 2 & 3-zone cymbals, DIY hall-effect 3-zone hi-hat, El Cheapo buttkicker, DIY trigger beaters on DIY longboard/direct drive modded pedals. DIY IEMs. Some kit pics/history.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ignotus, how the h*ll did you even come up with the idea to test this?

                    I'm gonna give it a try on my 14" snare asap.
                    Brain: mega drum. 5 toms: DIY mesh head, side-mounted DIY triggers. Snare: 14" 682 head, DIY crossbar trigger. 2xDIY beaterless BD pedal. .Cymbals: Crash: 2x 16" brass: 2 zone. Ride: 20" brass: 2 zone. Hi-Hat: 14" 1 zone DIY Control pedal + Pearl H900 stand. + drum rack:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      by the way, how does this set-up influence rim shot/click etc.?
                      Brain: mega drum. 5 toms: DIY mesh head, side-mounted DIY triggers. Snare: 14" 682 head, DIY crossbar trigger. 2xDIY beaterless BD pedal. .Cymbals: Crash: 2x 16" brass: 2 zone. Ride: 20" brass: 2 zone. Hi-Hat: 14" 1 zone DIY Control pedal + Pearl H900 stand. + drum rack:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Viperr View Post
                        Ignotus, how the h*ll did you even come up with the idea to test this?

                        I'm gonna give it a try on my 14" snare asap.
                        Ha ha! There I was, fist under chin, pondering the intricacies of wave propagation and waveform decay across a circular surface and... no, pure chance actually. I'd left the previous PS configuration on after changing the trigger location and whilst playing realised it was kind of working. Did some adjustments to the settings and that's it.

                        by the way, how does this set-up influence rim shot/click etc.?
                        No problems at all. You just need the head and rim piezos to be fairly isolated from each other. The head piezo is resting on about 2 cm of foam on a small l-bracket, with a thin circle of 1 mm rubber under its outer edge. I then put a small 0.5 cm thick piece of foam on the centre of the piezo, which is what touches the head. The piezo flexes inwards as opposed to most cone setups where it flexes outwards - I did it this way to have the smallest area possible touching the head. The rim piezo is just glued to the shell on the opposite side. Works fine.
                        Megadrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY 2 & 3-zone cymbals, DIY hall-effect 3-zone hi-hat, El Cheapo buttkicker, DIY trigger beaters on DIY longboard/direct drive modded pedals. DIY IEMs. Some kit pics/history.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ignotus View Post
                          I thought I'd share this:



                          I was trying out a side-mounted trigger in the snare and it turns out PS actually works. I think the foam ball in the centre has something to do with it (it's there to dampen the head to prevent double triggering), making the head vibrate in a certain way that makes PS possible, because without it it doesn't work, but I now have the best of two worlds: no hotspot in the centre and PS to boot!

                          The module is a MegaDrum, I can't say if this would work with a Roland module.
                          Hi,

                          Can I ask what type of foam ball are you using and how tight it it is against the mesh head?

                          Thanks

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's a very soft stress ball. I'd say it was pressed fairly tight against the head - about 5-7 mm above the bearing edge. It still didn't make a bump in the head though, which gives you an idea of how soft the ball was.
                            Megadrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY 2 & 3-zone cymbals, DIY hall-effect 3-zone hi-hat, El Cheapo buttkicker, DIY trigger beaters on DIY longboard/direct drive modded pedals. DIY IEMs. Some kit pics/history.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ignotus View Post
                              It's a very soft stress ball. I'd say it was pressed fairly tight against the head - about 5-7 mm above the bearing edge. It still didn't make a bump in the head though, which gives you an idea of how soft the ball was.
                              Excellent thanks for the info, this is something I'll definitely try when I get a Megadrum.

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