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DIY 3 Zone cymbal v2

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dreamdrummer View Post

    Hi Pumpal,

    Did you test it on your Roland module ?
    I'm planning to build a DIY brass cymbal with multiple chained Piezo's (4 or 5)
    If your tests are positive, I will likely succeed on my project :-P
    I have a Roland TD9 module
    Hi pumpal,same question did you get it working or not?
    thanks all
    FULL A2E conversion including Cymbals / HH controller / mesh heads
    [url]https://youtu.be/zsa0L-KFWQ8[/url]

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    • #47
      Originally posted by romolox View Post

      Hi pumpal,same question did you get it working or not?
      thanks all
      I recently made some A-->E crashes with 5 chained piezos. (No choke function)
      After messing around with Threshold, Retrig cancel etc, I got it working on my TD9 module.
      Ludwig Epic, Roland Mesh-heads, DIY Cymbals, Roland TD-9, EZdrummer2 + EZX

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      • #48
        I thought i understood this but no, the more I look at it the more confused I get.

        Your design has 3 piezo.

        Does each piezo handle one of the zones? Like, the bell has one piezo, the bow another and the edge the third one. .

        OR

        Do all three piezo work with whatever you are playing at any given time. So if you hit the bell, your design switches all 3 piezos to read the power of the bell stroke. If you hit the edge, all three read the edge stroke. If you hit the bow, same again?




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        • #49
          Originally posted by Dobly View Post
          I thought i understood this but no, the more I look at it the more confused I get.

          Your design has 3 piezo.

          Does each piezo handle one of the zones? Like, the bell has one piezo, the bow another and the edge the third one. .

          OR

          Do all three piezo work with whatever you are playing at any given time. So if you hit the bell, your design switches all 3 piezos to read the power of the bell stroke. If you hit the edge, all three read the edge stroke. If you hit the bow, same again?



          Yes, more or less your second explanation. When the bell or edge switches are activated by a hit, the module detects which one was hit, and uses the piezos to determine the velocity of the hit. The three piezos are all linked to each other and are spread out in order to provide even sensitivity around the entire circumference of the cymbal, so it doesn't matter if the cymbal spins. Hope that clears your doubts.
          MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. kit pics thread

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ignotus View Post

            When the bell or edge switches are activated by a hit, the module detects which one was hit,
            ~~~
            Hope that clears your doubts.
            Almost.. And thank you so much for your prompt reply AND awesome design. I am so going to built this!! I have a DM10x kit and the so called 3 zone ride is a shocker.

            When you say "the module detects which one was hit". I thought it was the switches you made between the top and bottom cymbal that did that. That is the bit I'm having trouble seeing.

            By default the 3 piezos are detecting the bow right? So then you play the bell. Here a switch is made that makes the cymbal use the 3 piezos to send info the bell in the module. Right again? And then same with the edge. Have I got it now?

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            • #51

              Yes, there are switches made between the top and bottom cymbals, one for the edge and one for the bell. They both go to ring on the jack, so in order for the module to tell which one was hit, the edge switch has a 10k resistor in series, and thus the module can know which one it is due to the difference in resistance. It goes like this:

              - Bell hit: bell switch closes; the module detects the switch with zero resistance has been activated and assigns velocity to the hit by measuring the voltage produced by the piezos.

              - Edge hit: same again, but it knows it was the edge because of the 10k resistor.

              - Bow hit: it just measures the velocity of the piezos.

              Before you make it, make sure your module supports piezo/switch/switch pads. I'm not sure the dm10 supports that...
              MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. kit pics thread

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              • #52
                Originally posted by ignotus View Post


                Before you make it, make sure your module supports piezo/switch/switch pads. I'm not sure the dm10 supports that...
                Good point.. Thanks for the tips. I'll let you know how I go.

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                • #53
                  Hello Ignotus.
                  First time I write in this forum.
                  I've been messing around with DIY e-drums foe a while and have achieved good results with R-drums and Drum-Tec stuff but always had problems with DIY cymbals! Made a couple of well functioning A to E brass 2 zones cymbals with choke but once I've seen your project I found it very very interesting! Great job I think!
                  Ordered my Stagg 16" practice cymbals and going to start making one as soon as they arrive!
                  Just one question: how is the wiring going down to the box with the female Jack? I suppose you made a hole but looking at the picture you posted I cannot imagine how the separation of the various signals (tip for piezo ceramic, sleeve for piezo metal and bottom cymbalcopper, ring for switchescopper) is made....... Seems like every thing goes through just one copper tape strip..... Is it so?
                  Thanks.

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                  • #54
                    Hi, as I keep getting asked the same questions about the wiring, I'm attaching a couple of pics that show where everything goes. The signal from the top cymbal copper (ground) is passed down by contact with another strip on the bottom cymbal. There are four copper strips that converge at a small hole. There, small wires are soldered to the strips and it's these wires that are connected to the female jack in a project box under the cymbal. The resistor is also in the project box. I also include the wiring diagram (the polarity of the piezo wiring will depend on your module, though I don't think it's critical).
                    cymbal with notes.jpg
                    cymbal with notes_2.jpg
                    piezo_switch_switch_circuit.JPG
                    MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. kit pics thread

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by romolox View Post
                      Hi pumpal,same question did you get it working or not?
                      thanks all
                      Hi guys,
                      I admit I abandoned the project for a while because I ran out of copper tape (initially I purchased only 4m which turned out to be not enough for a first time build when you don't yet know what you are doing ) but you kept this thread alive, so I decided I will finish it.
                      Here is a link with pictures illustrating what it ended up as.

                      What is different then the original design of Ignotus is that I used another, more simple and thus easy method of covering the top. I found a place mat in Ikea - Ikea item number 701.324.55 - which is really cheap and is like 1cm bigger in diameter then 14" . I then used a shoe glue alike adhesive to glue it to the top cymbal. The glue I used was not exactly a shoe glue, but more a glue that was for gluing rubber/cloth/plastic intended for the furniture industry. I used a paint brush to cover both the mat and the cymbal, waited for 5min and stacked another cymbal on top to keep the two parts in place. I used a hi-hat clutch to keep the sandwich depressed and waited for it to cure for 48h. After that I cut the excessive mat around the periphery with scissors. You can see the result, to me it is ideal. The material the mat is made of is a mouse pad alike stiff foam, but not as thick and with plastic-rubberized top surface- adds some softness and makes the cymbal quiet, little bit more loud then a rubber Roland or Yamaha. The rebound is Ok too - slightly less then the rebound of a rubber Roland or Yamaha.

                      The material I used for the separation between the two pieces was some 1mm thick floor isolation rubber I bought from a construction store. It was cheaper then the PVC and very easy to work with - cut an glue - but it has some bad smell to it - like cheap car mats - I hope that will go away soon though.

                      Another difference then the original design is that I didn't use a project box to host a female jack, as IMO it introduces a lot of dis-balance (adds weight to one of the sides) .
                      Instead I just hot-glued a cable.

                      This cymbal I intend to use with the spare parts/leftovers set I am putting together to use with my Versa trigger wireless boxes, so I also connected the 10k resistor to the bell zone, so I can use the cymbal as is with my Roland module if I decide. It doesn't matter for the Versa u-box which zone will have the resistor- you can set the resulting midi note as you want.


                      I admit the electrical interconnection does not look as pretty as it could with more planning prior taping
                      I also probably made some other small mistakes - the piezos ie are too high - too much towards the bell - I should've placed them bit more towards the edge.
                      The triggering is almost even across the top of the cymbal with slight raise of the amplitude around where the piezos are, but not as a hot spot. I think It is completely playable.
                      The edge triggers reliably and perfectly, though it is is a contact of two hard surfaces and so creates an audible slapping sound. Choking works easy and great too.
                      The bell zone is not that easy to trigger, I need to hit harder there, so that is another thing I could've done better - I should have make the cuts on the bell area little bit longer. But for a first attempt it turned out pretty good I think and I will be proudly using it .

                      Thanks Ignotus for sharing his ingenious design and supporting it by answering everyones questions!

                      Last edited by pumpal; 02-21-17, 08:53 AM.
                      ATV aD5, Roland TD-15
                      TAMA MetroJam2 TRB A2E

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                      • #56
                        Congrats Pumpal, glad you finally found a solution for the noise and were able to finish it off. I actually have a couple of those Ikea mats lying around but it didn't occur to me to use them... The vinyl layer on mine is starting to crack in places - it's only noticeable when looking closely but I'll probably have to "re-skin" them sometime in the future.

                        A slight improvement to the last cymbal I made was to stick on a very thin strip (about 2 mm wide) of 1 mm thick rubber around the edge and the bell, and I then applied the copper over that and increased the thickness of the separating rubber accordingly. It reduces the noise made when the two cymbals come together when hit. To improve the bell triggering, you could add a circle of cardboard or something and reapply the copper over that to reduce the gap.
                        MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. kit pics thread

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Thanks Ignotus - To be honest since I bought also some 2mm rubber, I thought about doing that (applying rubber on the contact zones), but will leave it for the next one .. I am considering now getting 16" pads to make a ride for my main set... I am not sure how durable that ikea pad will be. But, that 1mm rubber I have can be glued on top of it to make it stronger.. though that makes it more noisy ..
                          I'll share one other idea I tried and it worked surprisingly well - for my hh buld, I actually used that Ikea mat instead of the top cymbal .. I put the piezo (one) on the bottom of the cymbal. The piezo is mounted using a half circle the diameter of the piezo) of 2mm rubber - Yamaha alike. The copper tape is stuck to the periphery of the mat and it is spaced around 15mm from the edge with double-sided foam tape. That worked great for a 2 zone cymbal.
                          It's ugly as it was a test build, but worked very good too:
                          https://goo.gl/photos/fnPGEQbaAd7NNDv58
                          https://goo.gl/photos/YgtYG7DZrT4Ff3nk8
                          The rubber on the bottom side is to add weight to it and to mute it.
                          Last edited by pumpal; 02-21-17, 11:52 AM.
                          ATV aD5, Roland TD-15
                          TAMA MetroJam2 TRB A2E

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