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Grandson's Junior kit gets a new lease on life - A to E conversion build log

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  • Grandson's Junior kit gets a new lease on life - A to E conversion build log

    I have just started the process of converting my grandson's Ludwig Junior kit to an e-kit. This thread will be a log of my progress and issues.
    Starting with his Ludwig Junior kit, the plan is to create a small, free standing e-drum kit.

    this is the kit I am using as the donor

    16" bass, 8,10,13 toms, 12" snare.
    unusual for child kits, these tom riser tubes are 7/8" which made it easier to find taller risers for the toms..
    You do not have permission to view this gallery.
    This gallery has 2 photos.
    Last edited by racer52; 03-09-15, 01:53 PM. Reason: added photo
    TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
    .
    Psalm 150
    had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
    YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
    Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

  • #2
    Is this for the grandson, or has he outgrown it and this is a new lease on life? I ask because I've been kicking around ideas of a kit for my son. At some point I'd like to make an A kit, and I've thought about making him a pine kit as a practice run. Current thinking is instead of making him his own acoustic kit, making a platform to get him up to the right height for the toms and snare and making remote pedals for kick and hats that plug into my Yamaha TDX-502.

    Interested in seeing what you do, regardless of who it's for.
    Yamaha DTX-502, KP65 kick, TP100 snare, RHH130 hats, TP65 toms, PCY130S crash. PCY150S ride

    Comment


    • #3
      thanks to member 'dabluesman' I quickly got off budget and fell to a bout of GAS right at the beginning. The module is now a TD-15, with VEX pack
      what that means to my 14 year old, is that he gets a boat load of cool sounding drum kits, and a module that will help him get better while having fun.

      for the three cymbals;
      I found a pair of used, low end, cymbal boom stands on ebay that will be perfect to mount two crash cymbals - maybe even mount an extra trigger pad off of them as an upgrade later.
      Re-purposing the original crash cymbal stand into a low ride cymbal stand

      I am leaning toward a pedal control for the HH, and a cymbal arm from the left crash stand to hold the HH cym. ?? not positive yet, have not made the controller yet.

      I performed a back up of the TD-15 to USB drive as soon as it arrived. I also did a factory reset, and backed that up as well, then restored the VEX backup
      You do not have permission to view this gallery.
      This gallery has 3 photos.
      TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
      .
      Psalm 150
      had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
      YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
      Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

      Comment


      • #4
        Two weeks ago I started making the drum heads..... I still need to address the bass drum, but all others are now re-skinned in DIY, black mesh.

        There are many ways to make a mesh head. This is what I have settled on - they seem to not fail.
        Only draw back is that they become a very snug fit on the shell because the mesh is wrapped completely around the drum head hoop. so be sure that the donor head hoop is a very loose fit on the shell. Or use a thinner mesh - this stuff is very heavy - Phifer Solar Tex 90% sunblock. I still had some of this stuff left over from my earlier builds. it is what is on my 'Ludwig BDP E-Snare' as seen in my avatar.

        Mesh is glued to the hoop, then wrapped around hoop and stitched back to itself for a solid, permanent hold.

        I cut the mylar head off of the hoop

        lay out a foam pad on the work surface.

        place a plastic sheet on the foam mat (this is the bag from inside a cheerios cereal box) it becomes the closed air seal for the super glue and a surface that the glue wont stick to.

        place a dish on the plastic - size is selected to create slack in the head when mesh is glued to the hoop

        place the mesh over plate

        dry test fit the hoop over the mesh and hold in place to check for amount of slack

        flip the hoop over and place a thin line (or a series of closely spaced dots) of super glue 'gel' on the flat edge of the hoop that will touch the mesh.
        apply it the full circle of the hoop, but only to the one, flat facing surface that will lay against the mesh. super glue gel pretty much stays where you put it - the liquid type runs all over and becomes a 'sticky mess'

        with out becoming one with the hoop,(this is super glue) turn the hoop over, center it, and press it firmly onto the mesh (glue side down). hold it firmly into the foam pad for at least thirty seconds, be sure to press all areas of the hoop so that the hoop is pressed firm into the plastic sheet and down into the foam pad. I worked my hands around the hoop and kept pressure for at least 30 seconds on each area. This creates an air seal and allows the glue to cure.

        Gluing the mesh to the hoop is how I make it easier to sew the mesh to the hoop and maintain the desired fit.

        this would be a good time to check again that you have a reasonable amount of head slack - or it wont go back on the drum because your tension rods will be too short.
        there would be no point in sewing it, if it was already too tight.



        Now it is time to fold the mesh around the bottom of the hoop and stitch it to the top of the head.

        it helps to cut slits in the salvage area so the mesh is more manageable when folding and pressing it toward the top head for stitching. just don't cut too deep.

        I don't know what the stitch is called , but i kept saying to myself 'two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back, two...' it seemed to allow me to keep a tight bond with my sewing.
        it will take three or four lengths of thread to complete the hoop. so you will get practice at starting and stopping knots - i just loop it a few times around the hoop at the end of the thread length, and tie it off.

        once it is all stitched - cut the salvage to about 3-5 mm of the stitch line.

        now it is time to see if you left enough slack and if the thing will even fit over the drum. mine were a snug, to very tight fit, but they went on. I also noted that on some drums the 'wrap finish' on the shell would bind against the mesh hoop. again the hoops need to have good clearance prior to making the mesh head.

        I gave a thought to grinding off some of the interior face of the hoop so that it wood fit looser - but passed as I had no idea how thick the metal was.

        I had to remove the washers from the tension rods to get the head started. once it started to form to the drum, I then could remove the rods and install the washers. But I have in the past, had heads that just would not go on due to not enough slack. so be sure to check that you have some deep slack when you are doing the dry fit stage prior to gluing.

        I have also had heads I could not use - they became to tight of a fit due to the mesh wrapping around to the inner surface of the hoop. some hoops fit closer to the drum shell than others.
        You do not have permission to view this gallery.
        This gallery has 5 photos.
        TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
        .
        Psalm 150
        had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
        YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
        Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

        Comment


        • #5
          more pics for post #4
          You do not have permission to view this gallery.
          This gallery has 5 photos.
          Last edited by racer52; 03-08-15, 12:07 AM.
          TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
          .
          Psalm 150
          had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
          YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
          Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ludwigite View Post
            Is this for the grandson, or has he outgrown it and this is a new lease on life? I ask because I've been kicking around ideas of a kit for my son. At some point I'd like to make an A kit, and I've thought about making him a pine kit as a practice run. Current thinking is instead of making him his own acoustic kit, making a platform to get him up to the right height for the toms and snare and making remote pedals for kick and hats that plug into my Yamaha TDX-502.

            Interested in seeing what you do, regardless of who it's for.
            this is my grandson's kit from when he was little - notice the dust on the bass drum .. Upgrading it for him.
            he knows about the conversion, but he thinks he is getting an old Ion drums module I have.

            I almost went for the DTX-502, but went for the Roland....because it is what I would have wanted :-)
            I'll probably do a DTX 502 later as an add on to my kit. why? I don't know, I just like building stuff

            My TD-20 kit is based out of child sized CB drums kit...actually, I stole some of the triggers out of my kit to give myself a jump start on his upgrade. I'll show what i did as I update this log.
            ​my avatar pic is the snare A-E from the child CB Drums kit that I wrapped and branded to look like my Ludwig Club Date kit from the early '60s
            Last edited by racer52; 03-07-15, 11:57 PM.
            TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
            .
            Psalm 150
            had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
            YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
            Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

            Comment


            • #7
              Very cool racer! Can't wait to see the end result.
              8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
              http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

              Comment


              • #8
                Lucky grandson!
                DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
                Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

                My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  building new dual zone 12" Snare Drum, had a cake pan left over that fit the Ludwig Junior snare.

                  Here are pics of what I have done so far with the snare (heads are already made)

                  Still need to wire up the internals

                  .. actually, these pics are just a dry fit, not glued in place yet ;-)
                  You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                  This gallery has 5 photos.
                  TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                  .
                  Psalm 150
                  had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                  YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                  Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I utilized a special short cut to DIY triggers for my grandsons three toms.... steal it from another drum!
                    I simply unbolted my head trigger assemblies and bolted them in his.. wow that was quick ;-D

                    still need to make his rim triggers - I did not want to transfer mine.
                    I was given a cool tip years ago for a shell mounted trigger that is very sensitive.. I'll try to remember who gave it to me...... It's on the tip of my tongue.. arghhh maybe later :-)... update.- I think it was member 'cheapthrill'

                    the crossbar is mounted to the shell via angle brackets with slotted holes. There is a layer of memory foam sheet stock glued between the crossbar and the angle bracket for rim trigger isolation.
                    Used 'Contact Cement' to bond the foam to the metal parts after fitting to the drum shell.
                    You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                    This gallery has 2 photos.
                    Last edited by racer52; 03-09-15, 05:30 PM.
                    TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                    .
                    Psalm 150
                    had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                    YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                    Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      worked on the dual zone snare trigger wires this eve... that's all for today
                      You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                      This gallery has 5 photos.
                      TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                      .
                      Psalm 150
                      had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                      YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                      Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        completed the dual zone snare with DIY heads top and bottom, no bolt cake pan drop in
                        You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                        This gallery has 3 photos.
                        TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                        .
                        Psalm 150
                        had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                        YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                        Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Nice Documentation PIcs! Thanks!
                          8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
                          http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Truly a labor of love!!!!! Thank you so much for taking the time to share with us...I would have given up and just bought mesh heads lol!!

                            K ;-)
                            My bands: Alter Ego, Arcanum
                            E Kit = Roland TDW-20s kit // Roland SPD-S// Pearl Demon Drives//
                            A Kit = Tama Swingstar 5 pc (1981) w/roto toms (orig owner!) //Zildjians
                            A Kit = Natal 6 pc with Paiste 2000 & Zildjian/MidiKNights/DrumSplitters

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
                              Nice Documentation PIcs! Thanks!
                              Hey Daniel!
                              I know how much I benefitted from this forum in the past (still do) - so , hoping that this log will help others in their DIY
                              And , you know I like doing this stuff anyway:-D

                              Originally posted by Kenster View Post
                              Truly a labor of love!!!!! Thank you so much for taking the time to share with us...I would have given up and just bought mesh heads lol!!

                              K ;-)
                              Your welcome! My pleasure. More postings as I progress... Stay tuned
                              We'll, I have a reasonable supply of mesh... Might as well use it - and these heads do last! Keeps the kids in my mind while keeping me out of trouble ;-)
                              I made top and bottom mesh heads so that he could swap out the head if he ever wears one out.

                              So I'll fess up on something I wasted time on
                              I got the snare working and tested on theTD-15 ... But could not figure out why I couldn't get positional sensing.. I swapped piezo leads to the point of my own confusion. Got my old wiring diagram and Beatnik's side by side - tried them both again. Played with trigger settings in the module - up , down , in between, finally left it at what gave good sensitivity and rim/ cross stick action- but no positional sensing .. Then reviewed the specs for the TD-15. Kind of forgot the reason I built the high end version DIY Snare was for his future upgrade :-D got caught up in completing the snare and wanted to hear the full featured version. Hey, it was late, and I was tired .. I'll try it on my TD-20 later this week. So there you have it - wasted an evening troubleshooting a feature that does not exist on the TD-15 💭
                              TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                              .
                              Psalm 150
                              had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                              YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                              Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                              Comment

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