New design: Impact Isolating Platform - Plans and Guide

[Brian Jackson]

Greetings all
My name is Brian Jackson. I was a member here years ago but just recently re-registered after purchasing a new e-kit. Thought I'd take a moment to introduce myself, and also share something useful with the community. Like many here, I live above neighbors that would rather not suffer through my late-night practicing, with impact noise of the kick pedals being the biggest offender. I've seen the "tennis ball riser" and felt that it lacked being the total solution I needed, so I put my engineering skills to work. I'm attempting to attach 2 files to this post, the design drawings (PDF) and the accompanying illustrated builder's guide (doc). They're free to distribute to anyone interested. It's a 100% effective impact isolating platform that can be built for under $100 from readily available materials without any specialized tools. The prototype has proven rock solid, reliable, and completely inaudible to the neighbors. Since we share with and learn from each other here, I thought I'd add my contribution. Thanks, and I look forward to getting to know some of you here.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

http://tinyurl.com/jacksonpad

Edit: Links has been replaced with link above for a single zip file containing all documents.

[TheYardbird]

This looks very interesting! Perhaps you could record some results and show us? Maybe ask a downstair neighbour if you could try and record the vibrations from your kit in his/her apartment with and without the isolation pads on your kit?
Is there anything else I could use instead of the concrete blocks? Would be nice if there was some way to achieve the light weight of a tennisball raiser but still gain the pros from your design? Maybe attach some of that inner tubeing underneath a tennisball raiser in the corners and centre of the rig?
Would it be possible to design something efficient as this but more tailored to go under the hi-hat stand and bassdrum pedal? I don't have enough space for a full platform and need to keep the footprint of my kit to a minimum.

[Brian Jackson]

This looks very interesting! Perhaps you could record some results and show us? Maybe ask a downstair neighbour if you could try and record the vibrations from your kit in his/her apartment with and without the isolation pads on your kit?
Is there anything else I could use instead of the concrete blocks? Would be nice if there was some way to achieve the light weight of a tennisball raiser but still gain the pros from your design? Maybe attach some of that inner tubeing underneath a tennisball raiser in the corners and centre of the rig?
Would it be possible to design something efficient as this but more tailored to go under the hi-hat stand and bassdrum pedal? I don't have enough space for a full platform and need to keep the footprint of my kit to a minimum.

Hi Yardbird!
It might be tricky with your space restrictions, so I can't really comment on the possibility of that with any authority. The inner tubes would certainly help in your case, but without sufficient mass and such a small footprint they may not provide adequate rigidity and stability of the platform as a whole. As for recording the after effects of the platform, there's nothing really to record. It's completely silent. My in-laws live in the room below. In fact their bedroom is directly below my studio... yes, worst case scenario! :-) So it was imperative I keep them happy.

[cure1973]

Hi and welcome again. This is a topic I'm sure will get a lot of response. Firstly you clearly know your stuff and to share in such detail is very good of you!
On a personal opinion I think there's two sides to this. Firstly there is a massive difference between asthetics and the actual 'working' side of this. I've no doubt that the design will certainly kill any bass drum noise but the look is something I don't think most people would go for. Apart from the fact of having to lug up concrete pavers it kind of looks like a box on bricks!
Don't get me wrong I'm not being critical....just objective
My kit is set up in a 3 story house and depending on where you are on the ground floor you can certainly hear the 'thump'. This isnt a problem luckily for me but for others in this situation maybe a more ' lightweight and/or portable' solution is needed? Over in the UK you can get concrete sheets, same as plasterboard (or gyprock) mainly used in shower areas (called aqua board) to waterproof under tiles etc.
Could that be an idea for slimlining your design? Or if its just the bass drum as the main offender isolate that in some way similar to yours and the rest of the kit with the tennis ball method?
At the end of the day electronic kits of any design, DIY or bought are going to always give off acoustic noise.

[Brian Jackson]

Hi and welcome again. This is a topic I'm sure will get a lot of response. Firstly you clearly know your stuff and to share in such detail is very good of you!
On a personal opinion I think there's two sides to this. Firstly there is a massive difference between asthetics and the actual 'working' side of this. I've no doubt that the design will certainly kill any bass drum noise but the look is something I don't think most people would go for. Apart from the fact of having to lug up concrete pavers it kind of looks like a box on bricks!
Don't get me wrong I'm not being critical....just objective
My kit is set up in a 3 story house and depending on where you are on the ground floor you can certainly hear the 'thump'. This isnt a problem luckily for me but for others in this situation maybe a more ' lightweight and/or portable' solution is needed? Over in the UK you can get concrete sheets, same as plasterboard (or gyprock) mainly used in shower areas (called aqua board) to waterproof under tiles etc.
Could that be an idea for slimlining your design? Or if its just the bass drum as the main offender isolate that in some way similar to yours and the rest of the kit with the tennis ball method?
At the end of the day electronic kits of any design, DIY or bought are going to always give off acoustic noise.

Hi Cure.
Agreed, it's not a sexy design by any means. Others have suggested a cloth skirt around the perimeter, and no doubt every builder will add their own embellishments. This design was simply what was needed in my own living situation, and intentionally kept bare-bones. And yes, it's a pain lugging concrete pavers, so portability wasn't part of the criteria since it was designed for a need in a particular environment. Playing elsewhere might not require one.

I'm sure other materials could be used, and that's an interesting idea that you have suggested, though I do not know how effective the result would be nor the cost penalty. I've seen quiet a few intriguing designs people have tried out with varying degrees of success. And following the 90/50 rule, you could probably use half the concrete and get 90% of the effectiveness. It's that last 10% that's always the problem :-)

Glad to meet you, and thank you for the feedback.

Cheers,
Brian

[Brian Jackson]

Per member The Yardbird's suggestion of recording the before/after effects of the 'JP Platform', I wrote that there was nothing to record. There simply isn't any impact noise to record downstairs. And posting a clip of white noise wouldn't really convey anything meaningful. Today I conducted an informal test using a seismograph app called Vibration Meter. I was surprised how sensitive the X/Y/Z accelerometers are on even basic smart phones, and this app registers these forces to the degree that even very soft keystrokes while I'm typing this produce significant values. Wow.

The informal test was done by first laying the phone/sensor 1" from the kick pedal, lying directly on the carpeted surface of the platform itself. As you might guess it was full peaked at about a 5.2. As a mean I set it then on my typing desk and while typing this message it's registering around 2.5. I'm a fairly light typist I might add. This gives me an idea of approximate range and sensitivity. I then simply tap the desk very lightly and it's measuring approximately .03~.07... very hard to be consistent at such low ranges. And when I'm completely still it finally registers zero.

Sweet app.

Now the acid test. What does it register when it's placed on the floor next to the platform. .04 was the maximum I could achieve at full-stomp kick pedal velocity. The graph didn't even register.

To spare you the math, earthquakes are measured on a logarithmic scale, meaning that the differences between the numbers are not uniform. Their assigned intensities double with each successive whole number. That also means it's possible to divide by half backwards forever. So when you see numbers like .03 on a seismograph, you're down to a level undetectable by humans. And as it happens, humans are the ones I'm trying not to piss off. Win!

Cheers,
Brian Jackson

[TheYardbird]

Dayum, that's impressive! Now I'd like to see someone using a classic tennisball raiser post results using the same app
Yes, I ask for much x)

[cure1973]

Hi Cure.
Agreed, it's not a sexy design by any means. Others have suggested a cloth skirt around the perimeter, and no doubt every builder will add their own embellishments. This design was simply what was needed in my own living situation, and intentionally kept bare-bones. And yes, it's a pain lugging concrete pavers, so portability wasn't part of the criteria since it was designed for a need in a particular environment. Playing elsewhere might not require one.

I'm sure other materials could be used, and that's an interesting idea that you have suggested, though I do not know how effective the result would be nor the cost penalty. I've seen quiet a few intriguing designs people have tried out with varying degrees of success. And following the 90/50 rule, you could probably use half the concrete and get 90% of the effectiveness. It's that last 10% that's always the problem :-)

Glad to meet you, and thank you for the feedback.

Cheers,
Brian

And you too...if I wasn't returning home to Perth Australia I might have built something to try out. Alas its already concrete everything over there and usually single story so no need for me to bother! How did you work out how many concrete pavers you would need? Or was it trial and error?

[Brian Jackson]

How did you work out how many concrete pavers you would need? Or was it trial and error?

Hi Cure.

I'd like to say it was a carefully studied acceleration of mass, but I'd be lying. I wanted something big, heavy and cheap. Originally I designed the unit for 16" sq. tiles and a single center truss. Each tile would have had a mass of 37 lbs. (16.7 kg). Unfortunately it's winter here in February in the United States, and most home improvement stores don't stock a plethora of patio remodeling goods this time of year. So when running the math, a 12 X 12 of the same thickness, which they had in stock and was easier to carry, doubling them up provided the same mass for about the same cost. And really, total mass was all I was interested in, provided it had the surface area to accommodate the inner tube dampers.

I hope I've answered your question adequately. Sometimes good engineering means thinking on your feet.

Edit: To clarify, there was a specific mass I was aiming for, around 60 lbs per pedestal.

[Brian Jackson]

Dayum, that's impressive! Now I'd like to see someone using a classic tennisball raiser post results using the same app
Yes, I ask for much x)

That would actually be very cool and helpful in letting others make decisions on which type to build and how much effort to expect to put in. I could imagine a drop-test with an observer below to rate the noise levels and thus which method to use. Mine is total, but it's also heavy which may not be necessary in all situations. There's also the ability to remove 1/2 the concrete and still have it be 90% effective. Depends on the conditions.

[TheYardbird]

That would actually be very cool and helpful in letting others make decisions on which type to build and how much effort to expect to put in. I could imagine a drop-test with an observer below to rate the noise levels and thus which method to use. Mine is total, but it's also heavy which may not be necessary in all situations. There's also the ability to remove 1/2 the concrete and still have it be 90% effective. Depends on the conditions.

Yeah I have a pretty nasty back problem, accompanied by a mechanical heart valve and recovering from a brain aneurysm last april so I'm not able to do any heavy lifting at all. So anything without concrete that still works would be super-duper x) I was trying to come up with an idea for a tennisball/innertube mixed platform, but I couldn't come up with any drafts that would put both the tennisballs and the innertubing to work.

[Brian Jackson]

I'm sorry to hear that, Yardbird. I can empathize with your condition, having had a nasty injury previously. I wish you a speedy recovery on your recent procedure, and please keep me posted on your progress. I can't promise the world, but I can certainly give some thought to your requirements. If you could post here or PM me I'll be more than willing to entertain some ideas. My first thought is to somehow contain water. It has great mass per volume and is already piped upstairs so there's no lifting. I'm just brainstorming though. Bear with me.

[ignotus]

Some of these?
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[TheYardbird]

Some of these?
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How much weight would one of those support? Would be a disaster if you'd put one of those in each corner of a drum platform in your flat or such and have it pop.
Although I can't think of any other types of water containers that would have sufficient volume and would be able to support all that weight.

[ludwigite]

I think you can ditch the unsprung mass. Its rigidly coupled to a vastly higher mass already. Or move it to the suspended side if your suspension can handle it. I like it, but I think you can cover the same thing with a skirted pallet suspended over inner tubes. Your max load is much higher than the rated load of the wheel/tube because with more surface are in contact with the load you can go much higher without exceeding the pressure limit of the tire. (You have a larger contact patch than when used as a wheel). You could always increase mass with bricks or sand if you need mass that's easier to install in smaller chunks. Sand is awesome but it comes in 50lb bags so you might need a friend if you're facing medical issues.