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I want a dum from my tom's, not a toooo

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  • I want a dum from my tom's, not a toooo

    I'm still not happy with how my toms are sounding on my Yamaha Custom Noveau. I've got 2 ply skins on the hit side and the factory single ply on the other. My problem is how they sound, I played on a kit the other night and the toms felt punchy with a real thump when you hit them. Mine sound like there's too much resonance, making a kind of toooo sound. I'm after a dum sound, not a toooo...

    Can anyone help?

    I've tried tuning the toms right down but they become too loose and start to crease - I've also tried fully tightening but they sound like kettle drums!

    Thanks in advance
    TD6-KW, extra CY-8, Millenium E-drum gig bag.
    Yamaha Stage Custom Nouveau, 22 Fusion with Sabian Pro cymbals - # 14 Hi-Hats, # 16 Crash, # 18 Crash, # 20 Ride.
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  • #2
    You can "cheat" and use a small piece of tape on the head for dampening.. or a Moon Gel.. that "might" help.

    Are they birch or maple or...? Also what size are the shells (circumference and depth)?

    I'm not familiar with Yammie acoustics but I might be able to help you figure out what's going on.

    The double ply top heads are the Yamaha factory ones right? I would try to play with the resonant (bottom head) a bit and see if you get close first then possibly change out the batter (top) side with some different thickness or coated.

    -Aquarian Heads (Studio X to be specific) used to be my cure all whenever I had a tom that I couldn't do anything with.

    E
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    • #3
      This should help a ton:
      http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/

      DO NOT try to bandaid badly tuned drums with dampening.

      You sound like you're flip-flopping between bad and also-bad. The solution is somewhere in the middle of these tensions.

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      • #4
        If you want to "dum down" your drums (sorry, couldn't resist), I would suggest you start by removing the bottom heads. This will remove a source of extra resonance that might be part of what's bothering you. Make sure the heads are tuned to match the resonance of the shell. Generally, this is the point at which the head is just tight enough that you are getting some rebound when you strike it with a stick. Gently tap the head near each lug with a stick in your left hand while you adjust the tension at each lug so that each spot produces the some note. Finally, dampen the head with Moon Gels. These are great because it's easy to experiment with them until you find just the right spot or spots on the drum to dampen. They can easily be cut into pieces if you wish. I did this when I was using them and found that a small piece at 12 o'clock and a small one at 3 o'clock (position on the drum head, that is) gave me just the right amount of dampening.

        Remember that behind the drums you will hear more resonance than the audience will. You don't want them to end up sounding like cardboard boxes.
        Id rather be told the ugly truth than handed a pretty lie.

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        • #5
          Great reply's as always fellas...

          The top heads are 2ply aquarians which I put on after the old single ply ones became very dented. I currently have some tissue with gaffa tape over the underneath head which dampens things a bit but not the extent I would like. Would putting 2ply heads on the under side of the tom's make any difference?
          TD6-KW, extra CY-8, Millenium E-drum gig bag.
          Yamaha Stage Custom Nouveau, 22 Fusion with Sabian Pro cymbals - # 14 Hi-Hats, # 16 Crash, # 18 Crash, # 20 Ride.
          http://www.thehalt.co.uk
          http://www.mclyle.com

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          • #6
            Drums also sound so different when you are standing away from them. I've been recording mine lately, with a digital recorder. While I'm not excited by the sound while playing, they sound really good on the recording. It would be cool for you to record yourself or have someone else play your drums so you can listen with a different perspective.


            http://tinyurl.com/My-E-kit

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            • #7
              Putting double-ply heads on the resonant side will make your drums sound like cardboard.

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              • #8
                I would try evans 2 ply clear on the batter side and the resonant glass on the resonant side, also make sure that the bearing edges are clean and free of defect. Then stand back and let someone else play them while you listen. go from there with tuning and adjustment. Drums almost always sound better from the fromnt and when recorded with proper tuning rather than behind the kit. I have heard this combination on a Yamaha and it was awesome.

                If you are having a problem with tensioning each lug use a tension key with a release or setting adjustment as this will give you a starting point. (Rythym Tech makes one as well as Evans) I still use this method today even though tuning isnt a problem for me, I like to have a base from to start.

                Google drum tuning as well, I do this every six months to read what others do in this department as often someone will come up with something really interesting that sounds great. Good Luck and I hope this helps, Tom
                www.EDrumForum.com Going to be strictly a DIY e Drum Community

                http://www.vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=198

                Comment


                • #9
                  -Just a little insight on that "behind/infront" thing...

                  I've been shopping at numberous Guitar Centers this weekend looking for a new kit...

                  DW was almost the winner...until I got in front and had the sales guy bang them. Now I'll either be buying a Tama starclassic Birch or Gretsch Renown (possibly Gretsch USA Custom..depends on the price for the finish I want.)

                  It was night and day...

                  -and the moon gels are not something to be discounted!!! They are a great tool to help get a better sound out of toms (tape works too )

                  E
                  - your source for electronic cigs. Use coupon code "" for 10% off every order!!!

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                  • #10
                    Torque keys aren't fantastic, especially if used on low to mid-level drums as they're dependant on the lug tension to do their thing and if a set is not meticulously maintained, the natural lug tensions will vary quite a bit. I do like my Tension meter, however, to get me quickly into a fairly even tuning range before seating my heads, as well as quickly getting them to "my favourite" tensions before tweaking them by ear. The ear-tuning portion is important in either case though because of inconsistencies.

                    Really, the link I provided is the best resource on tuning on the net and should be read by anybody who wants to understand the principals of tuning. The step-by-step for toms can be found at the end of the Tuning and Seating portion.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stickinthemud View Post
                      If you want to "dum down" your drums (sorry, couldn't resist), I would suggest you start by removing the bottom heads. This will remove a source of extra resonance that might be part of what's bothering you. Make sure the heads are tuned to match the resonance of the shell. Generally, this is the point at which the head is just tight enough that you are getting some rebound when you strike it with a stick. Gently tap the head near each lug with a stick in your left hand while you adjust the tension at each lug so that each spot produces the some note. Finally, dampen the head with Moon Gels. These are great because it's easy to experiment with them until you find just the right spot or spots on the drum to dampen. They can easily be cut into pieces if you wish. I did this when I was using them and found that a small piece at 12 o'clock and a small one at 3 o'clock (position on the drum head, that is) gave me just the right amount of dampening.

                      Remember that behind the drums you will hear more resonance than the audience will. You don't want them to end up sounding like cardboard boxes.
                      I have not heard of anybody taking the bottom heads off of their drums since the 1980s..I actually thought you were joking when I read that.
                      The bottom head is what will drive much of your tone. I tend to tune that one just a smideon higher than the batter head. I have always used my drums wide open, no dampers or no removing bottom heads(ACCKKK!) I used to use a drum dial and it would get me into the ballpark, then I would tweak the rest by ear. Just get the bottom head at a reasonable pitch, then tune the top a bit lower than that...with all the lugs tuned evenly to one another....
                      Roland V-Pro TD20 expanded with V Expressions
                      Presonus Firepod
                      Reaper
                      Acoustic- Spaun drums, Dunnett snare & Paiste Signature Series Cymbals.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sirlylos View Post
                        Great reply's as always fellas...

                        The top heads are 2ply aquarians which I put on after the old single ply ones became very dented. I currently have some tissue with gaffa tape over the underneath head which dampens things a bit but not the extent I would like. Would putting 2ply heads on the under side of the tom's make any difference?
                        Single plys on the bottom, double on top...no tape, no moon gel. Try to get them very close to one another with the bottonm a tad higher....report back on that and let us know what works.
                        Roland V-Pro TD20 expanded with V Expressions
                        Presonus Firepod
                        Reaper
                        Acoustic- Spaun drums, Dunnett snare & Paiste Signature Series Cymbals.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The bottom head is what will drive much of your tone. I tend to tune that one just a smideon higher than the batter head. I have always used my drums wide open, no dampers or no removing bottom heads(ACCKKK!) I used to use a drum dial and it would get me into the ballpark, then I would tweak the rest by ear. Just get the bottom head at a reasonable pitch, then tune the top a bit lower than that...with all the lugs tuned evenly to one another....
                          That's my preferred tuning as well for a rich & resonant rock tone. If I had to hazard a guess, I think my batter is only around 2-2.5 turns up from hand-tensioned (or, 50ish on your dial with a 60ish on the reso -- that's from memory, I have them written down in the jam space).

                          Mostly sounds to me like the OP has his batter tensioned much too high.

                          And I also don't like dampening, though I carry moongels in my stickbag in case something starts acting up during soundcheck -- where it's band-aidy nature is appropriate useage.

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                          • #14
                            Too high toms are a problem. I found that taking off both heads and holding just the shell out on a fingertip and lightly thumping the outside of the shell with the ball of your hand with you ear somewhere in the shell end helps to find the resolnant tone of the shell itself. To get the best ring, you want to work with this, either using the tone itself or some reasonable harmonic of it. Obviously, you'll have to deviate from this somewhat becasue your kit on a whole might not be in tune with itself at that point, so you still have to play with it.

                            I saw this technique a long time ago at a clinic by ... uh ... Madonn's drummer ... er ...sugarfoot? ... anyway - it was when DW was pushing their line of drums at the time and pointing out the fact that the shells of a kit were matched in this way so that they could be tuned to compliment one another and have logical note values as you decended them.
                            My Updated Website: https://blades.technology

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                            • #15
                              -as you can tell there are 1000's of opinions on the correct way to tune...try the suggestions above and see which gets you to a sound you're happy with.

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                              - your source for electronic cigs. Use coupon code "" for 10% off every order!!!

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