Electronic Cymbal Evaluations

[fartnokker]

Just got back from Drumbalaya (Many thanx to Scott for the hookup!), and had a chance to demo most of the electronic cymbals out there.

Some observations:

Yamaha PCY-series cymbal pads - floppy mush. They react like pieces of rubber/plastic that're loosely mounted. Better than rigid pads, but not very cymbal-like.

Ddrum cymbals - the only good thing I can say about them is that you can keep your old hi-hat stand in use. They are flat pieces of metal, covered with a thin piece of neoprene. Not very cymbal-like, and very rigid.

Roland V-Cymbal crashes - the best feeling/reacting of the ones I've tried. I mean, quite a bit like playing an acoustic cymbal, with good triggering characteristics. Stoopid-expensive, but the best option when price is no object.

Roland CY-12HH V-Cymbal Hi-Hat - Ugh! I didn't like it, not a bit. I hadn't realized it was absolutely rigidly mounted. When I play acoustic hi-hats, they move a bit. Not the CY-12HH. May as well be playing a PD-9, in my opinion. Save your money.

Roland CY-15R (?) V-Cymbal Ride - not bad, but also not as good as I'd hoped. The triggering left something to be desired. I tested in on a TD-10exp, and wasn't really impressed.

Pintech ZB1/ZB2 - okay, I'll admit it. I was surprised, both pleasantly and unpleasantly. On the downside, it wasn't what I expected, after seeing pictures. I thought it was covered by a rubber membrane like the Rolands, but the covering is more like a cross between open-cell foam and neoprene. The foam rubber itself doesn't present any problems, but I'll have to wait & see regarding the long-term durability.

What really surprised me was how good it felt. I tried it as a crash cymbal, and it worked pretty good. As a hi-hat, I tightened it down a bit, and was able to dial up a pretty darned realistic hi-hat feel. Under the foam, the bulk of the cymbal was made from a hi-strength polymer. It was possibly not as rigid as the Hart Ecymbals, but not too floppy in the 14" size.

The Hart Ecymbal II hi-hat was nice. Very nice. Probably my choice for an e-cymbal trigger, given an unlimited budget. The Ecymbal II and Ecymbal S were identical, except for color. The Ecymbal S hi-hat is constructed of bronze, just like the II's, and featured the same rubber pad. Either one is a winner, without a doubt.

The Hart Ecymbal Ride triggered well, but the damned rubber pads just felt weird! If one could combine the triggering characteristics of the Hart Ecymbal ride with the feel of the Roland ride, it would be my quest in life to own one.

Ecymbal II & S crashes - I went back and forth on which one I liked best... The Ecymbal II felt a little more realistic than the S, due to the rubber striking pad on the S, but I selected a pair of the Ecymbal S crashes for my own use for a couple of reasons. First, the demo Ecymbal II I was using had a couple of cracks in it, which added to my doubts as to the durability of the polymer after repeated whacking. My guess is that the rubber striking pad on the S-model would help the durability somewhat. Second, the black finish just plain looks cool! Shallow, I know, but true nonetheless. Some folks like the "realistic look" of the gold-electroplate finish on the Ecymbal II's, but I figured that if I wanted real-looking plastic cymbals, why did I buy fake-looking drums?

Staying well within my budget, I selected the Pintech ZB1 for my hi-hat pad, a 12" and 14" Ecymbal S crash, and a Hart hi-hat pedal. I'm gonna, as I'd planned, use a Roland PD-9 for my ride cymbal, at least for the time being. I generally torque my ride a little tight to reduce sustain & overtones, so the rigidity of the PD-9 won't be that foreign to me. Laying the meat of the stick across the rim trigger will do just fine for triggering the bell sound.

Although some might question my choice of the Zenbal as my hi-hat pad, I'd advise anyone interested to try it out before you knock it. I played a variety of styles on it during testing, from 64th-note 2-handed jazzy stuff to ham-fisted rock backbeats, and it tracked well, felt great, and didn't miss a beat. I never felt like it was being pushed beyond its structural limits, and if the foam covering holds up, I'll continue to use it for a long time.

Any questions about my observations on individual cymbal pads, just ask.

[Rythmstik]

I've had a ZB2 for two weeks, now, and I've been playing the heck out of it. It just plain isn't reliable. You have to strike the rim trigger just so, and 3 out of 5 times it will mis-trigger, either no sound or a very faint sound. Dynamics are unreliable. The bow triger is alright, but still prone to mis-trigger, tho not as much as the rim. I do like the overall look and feel of it, but it pretty much spins just like a real cymbal, and that just moves the trigger sweet spot farther out of range and results in more mis-triggers. I drew an arrow in the bell of mine so I'd know where the heck the trigger was, so I'd have a better chance of hitting the sweet spot and getting an actual sound out of it. I haven't tried to use it as a HH - maybe it'll work better as that.

I think they feel better and are better, then anything available.

[Ranman]

Originally posted by fartnokker
Some folks like the "realistic look" of the gold-electroplate finish on the Ecymbal II's, but I figured that if I wanted real-looking plastic cymbals, why did I buy fake-looking drums?

I like that! 'Course, I'm guilty as charged... but I still like that.

[fartnokker]

I'll keep track of the long-term issues with the Zenbal as encountered, and will let everyone know.

I would've tried out the Visulites if I could have. Heard lots of good feedback about 'em, but never had the need for flourescent green or orange cymbals yet!

Upon further examination, it looks like the polymer on the Hart Ecymbal S and the Zenbal is pretty darned close. Only time will tell......
And Ranman, you need to get some "real" -looking drums to go with them thar cymbals, now!

[ufotofu]

About the Hart ECII ride -- many others have said that it feels better to play than the CY-15R, metal or rubber surface. What about the rubber playing surface did you not like, and how is it different than the ECII hi-hat?

[fartnokker]

'Tofu, I've gotta preface this by saying that my impressions were (and are) quite subjective, and may not agree with yours or others' impressions of the same product.

With that said, I felt like the EC II ride didn't offer the same sort of sticking feel that an acoustic cymbal offered, while it did trigger quite well on the bow and bell. I'm used to a pretty fair amount of hard bounce from a ride cymbal, being used to heavier rides that aren't intended for crash use. Accordingly, the harder & less resilient playing surface on the Roland V-Cymbal ride just felt more natural, although it didn't seem to track as accurately as the Hart EC II did.

As for the differences between the ride and HH, both featured the cymbal-bronze construction with rubber playing surfaces. I tried rotating the ride around and playing on the metal surface of the bow, but the dampening effect of the rubber still changed the stick-rebound characteristics in a way that I didn't particularly favor. I really fell in love with the hi-hat, though, and wished I had the resources on hand to purchase one. I'm currently swinging a deal on some old acoustic gear to raise the funds to do just that.

Don't get the impression that I'm down on the Hart ride, because I'd probably buy that one before any of the other dedicated electronic ride cymbals. I just wish I could combine the best characteristics of the Roland and Hart products into one ride cymbal.

One thing I didn't mention was that I side-by-side tested the available hi-hat pedals as well. I tried a Hart Epedal, Pintech HyperHat, and the Roland FD-7. While I didn't try one yesterday, I'm also a former owner of a Yamaha HH-80 and a DrumKat HatKat as well.

My preference was for the Hart pedal, closely followed by the Roland. Both exhibited great feel, precise tracking, and a good overall approximation of real hi-hat performance. I'd place the Pintech next, and would then put the Kat & Yamaha at the back of the pack. The Kat pedal was a bit mushy & felt sort of uncontrolled, while the Yamaha just didn't feel very hi-hat-like at all, in spite of its adjustability.

Just thought I'd throw that in while I was at it. The more I play around with (and and now buy) Hart products, the more I like 'em.

[ufotofu]

Thanks for the info. I'm surprised that the ECII ride has such a different feel than the ECII hi-hat. (If I understand you correctly.) Would it have something to do with diameter? Or is it because the hi-hat does a better job of approximating the feel of an acoustic hi-hat, than the ride does for approximating the feel of an acoustic ride?

[fartnokker]

Originally posted by ufotofu
Would it have something to do with diameter? Or is it because the hi-hat does a better job of approximating the feel of an acoustic hi-hat, than the ride does for approximating the feel of an acoustic ride?

For me, it is the latter. A hi-hat, at least an acoustic one, has a bit of a dampened feel to it, due to the contact between the two cymbals, and I thought the feel of the EC II hat was pretty darned realistic. The ride, though feeling a bit like the EC II hat, just didn't feel as much like a ride as the Roland did. Admittedly, this was based on only about 5 minutes of playing on each, and under less-than-scientific conditions. I'd think that the Roland, while being made of materials other than cymbal bronze, did a better job of approximating the feel & motion of an acoustic ride cymbal.

The Hart, while primarily using the same material as an acoustic ride, also has the rubber pad, triggering box, and attached cable to contend with. These are things that an acoustic ride don't have, and thus altered the feel & motion of the bronze cymbal to a degree that it doesn't seem to react quite like its unencumbered acoustic counterpart. I think the Roland had these things factored into the design, so that the end result (while not looking nearly as much like an acoustic ride cymbal) reacts somewhat more like the aforementioned "unencumbered" bronze acoustic ride.

I've gotta restate my assertion that it isn't a case of the Hart ride being bad, as I'd pick that one over any other I've tried; rather, I just thought the feel on the Roland ride was a bit more realistic to me. Remember that this is purely subjective.

The Hart hat was semi-rigid, but gave some motion when played with gusto. That was a good thing to me. The Roland hat was a rigidly-mounted pad with absolutely no motion at all, and that was a bad thing.

The Hart and Roland rides both had a fairly realistic motion to them, but the sticking feel on the Roland was a little more realistic for my taste. Too bad the tracking on it wasn't as accurate (during my testing) as the Hart.

[fartnokker]

Right after posting my last meandering mutterings, the little 15-watt energy-saver lightbulb came on over my head, and I had a bit of an epiphany: The Roland feels like it had the acoustic ride cymbal as its target end-point. The Hart EC II feels like it had the acoustic ride cymbal as its BEGINNING point, with the conversion to an electronic triggering device coming subsequent to that starting point.

Does this make sense?

I hope so, 'cause it does to me, but I'm not taking that as being universal by any means!!! I just hope I'm articulating this idea correctly.

[Ranman]

Originally posted by fartnokker
The Roland feels like it had the acoustic ride cymbal as its target end-point. The Hart EC II feels like it had the acoustic ride cymbal as its BEGINNING point, with the conversion to an electronic triggering device coming subsequent to that starting point.

An excellent description. Spot On, my good man!

[fartnokker]

bjb, it was my pleasure. I just felt like I should post the sort of info I would've liked to see before I went shopping. Very good points you make regarding the adjustability of the EC II hats - that is yet another factor in my perception of their superiority over the competition.

While I realize the lotsa folks will generate lotsa differing opinions regarding the same piece of gear, I also know that many folks here (like yourself) don't have access to the type of hands-on testing that I'm lucky enough to have. While I'm not a professional writer or columnist, I was hoping that I could give enough of a first-hand description, albeit subjective, that it could help some of the members here make better-informed purchase decisions.

Since I do have pretty good access to many different types of gear, thru the various local retailers, I'd be happy to provide written descriptions and evaluations of whatever anyone here would like to hear about - provided said retailers were willing to indulge me! As a typical Joe-schmoe drummer guy, I might not be the most objective or articulate evaluator, but I'm willing to try & put my bias aside and give it a shot if needed.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

[Ranman]

Can you 'lease' an item on your credit card and ship it to me for a hands-on demo? That'd REALLY help!

[fartnokker]

For a 120% processing fee, not a problem!

[Ranman]

Rats. I'm a little short this century. Oh well, maybe in 3003 a.d.