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SPD-SX - software issues :( + first impressions.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Chris K View Post
    I do hope they will bring back the velocity switch, rights now the Sub wave are not usefull, most spd-sx users have this complain, merging wave was possible without the sub, since spd-s.
    I assume you mean that the unit won't let you have master and sub outputs at the same time, even though it's supposed to play "two waves to sound simultaneously from a single pad" On version 1.01, you can switch to either one, but not both. This is a MAJOR grrrrr for me, and contradicts what the manual says. makes no sense to have two sounds that will trigger at the same time, yet you can only output one of them. I have an email in to Roland asking about this. I hope it's just a software update.

    Grrrrr...

    I was fairly thrilled with the unit until this happened. It completely changes my ability to easily use it, and makes mixing a literal balancing act with levels and panning. That's just not good. My $200 Alesis SamplePad will do that!!

    Bermuda

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by bermuda View Post
      I assume you mean that the unit won't let you have master and sub outputs at the same time, even though it's supposed to play "two waves to sound simultaneously from a single pad" On version 1.01, you can switch to either one, but not both. This is a MAJOR grrrrr for me, and contradicts what the manual says. makes no sense to have two sounds that will trigger at the same time, yet you can only output one of them. I have an email in to Roland asking about this. I hope it's just a software update.

      Grrrrr...

      I was fairly thrilled with the unit until this happened. It completely changes my ability to easily use it, and makes mixing a literal balancing act with levels and panning. That's just not good. My $200 Alesis SamplePad will do that!!

      Bermuda
      I think you're talking about a different feature. Unfortunately the SPD-SX uses the term "SUB" for both direct outputs and secondary pad samples. Chris K was referring to the latter.

      But I think you're misinterpreting the manual if you think that two waves from one pad is related to master/sub(direct) outputs.

      (Not surprising because SUB is hardly explained at all, for outputs or waves; but I think they're separate.)

      What exactly will your $200 Alesis SamplePad do that the SPD-SX will not?

      Bruce
      • Roland TD-20+TDW-20, TD-8, SPD-S, PD-105, PD-6/8, CY-5/6/8/12, FD-6/8, KD-7/8, RT-10K, PM-30, DB-90
      • Hart Acupad, Hart Hammer, Pintech Dingbat, Sony MDR-7505, Shure E2, 512. Pacific CX, Zildjian A Customs.

      Comment


      • #18
        The manual and implementation absolutely let you assign one sound to the master output of a pad, and another sound to the sub output of the same pad - I've got a whole series of such setups. The volumes and panning for each pad's master/sub are separate, so the unit 'wants' to send separate sounds through separate outs from one pad. And on pg 46 under Playing the Second Wave (SUB) the manual specifically says "Make these setting <sic> when you want two waves to sound simultaneously from a single pad." I can think of no reason for having two sounds on a pad if they couldn't be played at the same time (unless they could be crossfaded, which is not the case here.)

        The problem is that a pad's output choices are: master & phones, FX1 or 2 w/master & phones, sub & phones, or phones only. They have overlooked the 'master & sub' option. What else could Roland have intended with this partially-implemented feature?

        I'm seriously hoping I've missed something, but it looks more like they have an important feature that they simply forgot to see through.

        I almost hate to compare that cheap little Alesis to the Roland, but for playing custom samples - which is all I need to do - it has the SPD-SX beat in two ways. First, it will accept lower resolution .wav files, which means for some sounds, you don't need to take up precious ram with a 16/44.1 file (the Alesis is only 14mb.) I had to resample several sounds just to make them work with the SPD-SX. And second, it's 1/4 the price of the Roland, and they both basically have a L & R output. That's what I meant when I said the Alesis already does what the SPD-SX seems to be doing.

        There are obvious advantages to the Roland for some users, but as a capable sample player, it's not too far from the unit that costs $600 less. Honestly, the only advantage that the Roland has at this point is its memory. If I could get by with only 14mb of samples, I would absolutely take the Alesis on the road instead.

        Bermuda

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by bermuda View Post
          The manual and implementation absolutely let you assign one sound to the master output of a pad, and another sound to the sub output of the same pad - I've got a whole series of such setups. The volumes and panning for each pad's master/sub are separate, so the unit 'wants' to send separate sounds through separate outs from one pad. And on pg 46 under Playing the Second Wave (SUB) the manual specifically says "Make these setting <sic> when you want two waves to sound simultaneously from a single pad." I can think of no reason for having two sounds on a pad if they couldn't be played at the same time (unless they could be crossfaded, which is not the case here.)

          The problem is that a pad's output choices are: master & phones, FX1 or 2 w/master & phones, sub & phones, or phones only. They have overlooked the 'master & sub' option. What else could Roland have intended with this partially-implemented feature?

          I'm seriously hoping I've missed something, but it looks more like they have an important feature that they simply forgot to see through.
          There's no mention of "master" or "outputs" on Page 46; so I don't believe you can assign sounds to master and sub outputs, only to MAIN (Page 45) and SUB (Page 46) WAVES.

          I think you can play two sounds from one pad at the same time, but only both through master outputs or both through sub outputs (as selected by PAD OUTPUT, Page 43).

          For your whole series of such setups, what do they actually do and what do you want them to do?


          Originally posted by bermuda View Post
          I almost hate to compare that cheap little Alesis to the Roland, but for playing custom samples - which is all I need to do - it has the SPD-SX beat in two ways. First, it will accept lower resolution .wav files, which means for some sounds, you don't need to take up precious ram with a 16/44.1 file (the Alesis is only 14mb.) I had to resample several sounds just to make them work with the SPD-SX. And second, it's 1/4 the price of the Roland, and they both basically have a L & R output. That's what I meant when I said the Alesis already does what the SPD-SX seems to be doing.

          There are obvious advantages to the Roland for some users, but as a capable sample player, it's not too far from the unit that costs $600 less. Honestly, the only advantage that the Roland has at this point is its memory. If I could get by with only 14mb of samples, I would absolutely take the Alesis on the road instead.
          The lower quality isn't that much of an advantage then? Is the max 14MB even with an SD card? Why does the the SamplePad have L & R outputs if samples must be mono?


          Bruce
          • Roland TD-20+TDW-20, TD-8, SPD-S, PD-105, PD-6/8, CY-5/6/8/12, FD-6/8, KD-7/8, RT-10K, PM-30, DB-90
          • Hart Acupad, Hart Hammer, Pintech Dingbat, Sony MDR-7505, Shure E2, 512. Pacific CX, Zildjian A Customs.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ludman View Post
            hi everybody, I'm Paolo from Italy, so sorry for my English..
            I got the spd sx one month ago and I'm really happy, it's a great machine!
            The only problem is the following: when you edit the pad parameters into a kit (pad sens, pad function), they change into the other kits too! so if I want different pad parameters in different kits, I can't! that doesnt happen in the Yamaha dtxtreme IIs, where you can set different parameters for each kit you like.
            I think that's a great issue..anybody knows how to fix it??
            thank you guys!
            Anybody can help me to fix that?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by ludman View Post
              hi everybody, I'm Paolo from Italy, so sorry for my English..
              I got the spd sx one month ago and I'm really happy, it's a great machine!
              The only problem is the following: when you edit the pad parameters into a kit (pad sens, pad function), they change into the other kits too! so if I want different pad parameters in different kits, I can't! that doesnt happen in the Yamaha dtxtreme IIs, where you can set different parameters for each kit you like.
              I think that's a great issue..anybody knows how to fix it??
              thank you guys!
              Originally posted by ludman View Post
              Anybody can help me to fix that?
              I don't think it's possible to fix that. Roland's trigger settings are always global, affecting all kits. Yamaha's trigger settings are often per kit like the DTXTREME IIS.

              Personally, I think Roland's method is generally more useful, as trigger settings are usually more related to a particular player or situation than each individual kit. I wouldn't like to have to copy trigger settings to hundreds of kits each time some slight tweak has to be made to fine-tune the playability of perhaps just one pad. But I can understand how it could be difficult to accept the constraint of global settings when you've become used to the greater flexibility of per-kit trigger settings like sensitivity.

              Instead of adjusting pad sensitivity, can't you achieve the same result with PAD VOLUME, set for each pad in each kit, which is also much quicker to access with F1?

              Bruce
              • Roland TD-20+TDW-20, TD-8, SPD-S, PD-105, PD-6/8, CY-5/6/8/12, FD-6/8, KD-7/8, RT-10K, PM-30, DB-90
              • Hart Acupad, Hart Hammer, Pintech Dingbat, Sony MDR-7505, Shure E2, 512. Pacific CX, Zildjian A Customs.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by BarT View Post
                There's no mention of "master" or "outputs" on Page 46; so I don't believe you can assign sounds to master and sub outputs, only to MAIN (Page 45) and SUB (Page 46) WAVES.

                I think you can play two sounds from one pad at the same time, but only both through master outputs or both through sub outputs (as selected by PAD OUTPUT, Page 43).
                There isn't a mention of outputs there, and the pads will indeed play two sounds at once. Maybe I'm confused because there's a sub sound, and a sub out? Unless the sounds can play at the same time and route separately, what's the point of having two sets of outputs that will only operate one at a time?

                For your whole series of such setups, what do they actually do and what do you want them to do?
                I intended for the master output to route to the monitors, and the sub out to go to foh. This enables me to better control my mix, as it differs somewhat from the house mix. It is possible to start from scratch and have both the foh and monitor boards re-set with my new levels, but the goal here is to make this a seamless transition for the crew.

                I should explain that I've been using Kurzweil samplers for almost 20 years, and layers with completely discrete mixes could be routed to various outputs. I had complete control over what I sent to the house, and what I needed to hear in my monitors. The SPD-SX master and sub outs appeared to be a simple version of what the Kurz does, and is suitable for the show. But, having 2 samples and 2 outs doesn't appear to amount to anything.

                I've already got an unfortunate workaround, which is creating prebalanced stereo samples to match a single stereo out (L goes to me, R goes to foh - they're all mono samples.) Using panning to adjust levels is not an option, I now have to tweak the samples to exactly where they need to be. Or, my trying to move forward with a new pad means re-setting monitor and foh levels. We're a well-oiled machine on tour, and personal changes are supposed to be transparent.

                The lower quality isn't that much of an advantage then? Is the max 14MB even with an SD card? Why does the the SamplePad have L & R outputs if samples must be mono?

                Bruce
                The stereo outs allow you to pan the sounds for a stereo mix.

                I wouldn't stretch the resolution too far, but if conservation or ram is a factor, longish samples such as vocals could become very tidy if sampled at 22,050. As it is, 14mb of mono samples at 16/44.1 is over 2 minutes, certainly enough for dozens of hits and other short-ish samples.

                Comparing the SamplePad to the SPD-SX is about samples, and outputs. I only need mono samples, so the units are the same for me. The only advantage the Roland has is its extended memory.

                I really would love to know why the SPD-SX has sub outputs at all if they can't run simultaneously with the master. I can't think of any reason for it. Seems like Roland could easily enable it and really broaden the SPD-SX's capabilities from 2 mono outs to 4.

                I don't hate the unit, I'm just extremely disappointed. It really could do more, since the hardware (sub outs) is already there. I have an email in to tech support, and will also speak with them at NAMM and locally if need be, I'm about 10 mi from the US headquarters. Yeah, I know Roland US isn't really Roland, but it's a start.

                Bermuda
                Last edited by bermuda; 01-07-12, 09:32 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by BarT View Post
                  I don't think it's possible to fix that. Roland's trigger settings are always global, affecting all kits. Yamaha's trigger settings are often per kit like the DTXTREME IIS.

                  Personally, I think Roland's method is generally more useful, as trigger settings are usually more related to a particular player or situation than each individual kit. I wouldn't like to have to copy trigger settings to hundreds of kits each time some slight tweak has to be made to fine-tune the playability of perhaps just one pad. But I can understand how it could be difficult to accept the constraint of global settings when you've become used to the greater flexibility of per-kit trigger settings like sensitivity.

                  Instead of adjusting pad sensitivity, can't you achieve the same result with PAD VOLUME, set for each pad in each kit, which is also much quicker to access with F1?

                  Bruce
                  Thanks for the reply Bruce, but volume and sensitivity is not the same thing, as I might need to play softly in a song and louder in another. the problem isn't for pad sens only, but for pad function too!! imagine I need to launch click by hitting a pad in a kit, and in the next kit at the same pad I need to play a drum sample...that's a great problem when you are on stage, cause you don't have the time for changing settings! I'm sorry to say that's the only bug of the spd sx, which is great anyway. hope Roland will fix it by new software release...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ludman View Post
                    yes it deletes all your custom kits, because it's a back up. I tried a week ago, I backed up my kits so I fixed that..
                    Hi Ludman.
                    Thanks for the answer. Can you please tell me if it's easy after installing the SP-20 sample bank to get the custom kits back from the backup all at once without deleting the SP-20 bank? Is it also just a matter of loading the custom backup? I 've spent days to get my custom kits so I would be very nice if I could get it back the same way after installing the SP-20 data.
                    Thanks a lot!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by basernst View Post
                      Hi Ludman.
                      Thanks for the answer. Can you please tell me if it's easy after installing the SP-20 sample bank to get the custom kits back from the backup all at once without deleting the SP-20 bank? Is it also just a matter of loading the custom backup? I 've spent days to get my custom kits so I would be very nice if I could get it back the same way after installing the SP-20 data.
                      Thanks a lot!
                      Hi Baserst,
                      no you can't load your custom kits without deleting the sp 20 bank. the sp 20 is a backup file with the kits from the td 20, so if you load your custom backup with your own sounds and kits you delete the previous one ( sp 20). they can't live together. the only way is to copy each sp 20 sound to your pc by an editor and transfer to the spd one by one after you have loaded the backup file with your sounds.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re the Master and Sub outs, Roland says:

                        "You can assign a pad to the Main output, or the Sub output (or phones), and both sounds come out that same output. You cannot assign a pad to go out both Main and Sub outputs at the same time. Nor can you assign the pad's 1st sound to one output, and the 2nd sound to the other output."

                        Not the answer I was hoping for, and it still leaves the question of why there is a need for a second set of outs at all?

                        For that matter, I'm not sure why I'd want to trigger 2 sounds from one pad without being able to control them separately (bussed to separate outs, for example!) If I want sounds layered, I would do that in my audio program anyway.

                        I'm going to find out who to talk to about implementing what I want. It seems so obvious, and doable. Or at least they can explain what they had in mind with the sub outs.

                        Bermuda

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          [QUOTE=ludman;555331]hi everybody, I'm Paolo from Italy, so sorry for my English..
                          I got the spd sx one month ago and I'm really happy, it's a great machine!
                          The only problem is the following: when you edit the pad parameters into a kit (pad sens, pad function), they change into the other kits too! so if I want different pad parameters in different kits, I can't! that doesnt happen in the Yamaha dtxtreme IIs, where you can set different parameters for each kit you like.
                          I think that's a great issue..anybody knows how to fix it??

                          I've written to Roland Italy asking about that problem but they haven't answered. So I wrote to Roland US but they answered me they don't support foreign people. So could anybody from you write to Roland US for me to fix that??
                          thank you all.......

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi everybody! I'm new here. Just wanted to comment on my newly aquired spd-sx. I'm really satisfied with the unit in general apart from some bugs in the software. One thing I just don't understand is why I can't tune the sample on the spot just like any samplers allow you too. I mean with the spd-sx you have to resample it to another pad or overwrite the existing file. It is a serious flaw in the design. I read the old spd-s worked the same way (don't know if it's true). What do you guys think of that? I've already e-mailed roland support about it and this is what they said

                            "Thank you for your suggestion, we appreciate your interest in the SPD-SX. We are not aware of any upgrade that includes this feature at this time, however you can check back on the Roland website from time to time to learn of any changes or updates to any of the Roland products.

                            Best Regards / Sincèrement vôtre,
                            Roland Canada"

                            The other thing which I think is not so great are the 3 edge triggers. You can't really use them has something to ride on cuz you have to hit them harder in comparison to the pads themselves. I don't see myself playing superfast free-jazz ride pattern on them. They seem to be good to trigger loops, casual sound fx, or maybe some crash.

                            Any thoughs?

                            Cheers all!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I thought pads 1-3 were damaged when I first played them. Even with the pad settings set to the most sensitive (threshold 0, sensitivity 16) they still require a solid hit to trigger. Super unreliable.

                              Also having to edit waves from a pad on a kit is majorly disappointing. Any change saved to a wave on a pad in that specific kit will GLOBALLY effect every other use of that sample. Why not edit the waves from the waves list area?

                              Having to import waves from a USB to an empty kit doesn't make any sense either. Why are they not just imported into the wave bank? Guess I'll just have to initialize/reset that kit every time I'm done.

                              Not being able to use the Master and Sub outs simultaneously is baffling as is the new sub sample pad function. Previously you could trigger sample A or B based on velocity and here they just play at the same time.

                              I have been waiting for years for this pad. Super. Bummer. Oh well. At least it it's got that Knight Rider vibe to it's look and

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ludman View Post
                                Hi Baserst,
                                no you can't load your custom kits without deleting the sp 20 bank. the sp 20 is a backup file with the kits from the td 20, so if you load your custom backup with your own sounds and kits you delete the previous one ( sp 20). they can't live together. the only way is to copy each sp 20 sound to your pc by an editor and transfer to the spd one by one after you have loaded the backup file with your sounds.
                                Hi Ludman,
                                thanks a lot. I think I'll have to add some good samples manually...
                                bye
                                bas

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