Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Connecting my Roland TD4-K to my PC.

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by robdemelker View Post
    Where can I find such a driver? Have been looking around, but I can not seem to find anything. No drivers came with the cable.
    you didnt get a CD with the cable

    find the manufacturer's homepage and product model.

    go into system (control panel >system >hardware) in windows and see what drivers are assigned to it.

    of the two reviews on the page you linked, one says ithe cable wont work under xp. what are you using xp or vista.

    the other one says it should work without any further software installation, but doesnt say is this xp or vista.. - does it appear in Ableton's midi list? I.e. in the software that you are using, in PREFERENCES, find the Midi connection options and see whether it appears. Remember to try switching the two cables - ie, the midi connector you are not using, try to see if it helps, in case the labels are not the way you expect.
    Last edited by saku; 02-14-10, 07:59 AM.
    TD9+6v module, KD-8, custom Diamond Electronic 12" snare + 2x8" + 2x10" toms, PD-85, 4xPD8, 2xCY8, CY-5, CY-12r/c, Pearl P902 double pedals, Diamond Electronic COWBELL!
    HPD-10 ATH-50M phones and 4 Vex Packs for the TD-9

    Gibson Les Paul. + pod xtl, Norman acoustic, Fender J-Bass + gt10b

    Clavia Nord Stage 2 Synth/Stage Piano Samson SR850 'phones

    cubase, garritan personal orchestra, JABB, symphonic choirs, Sibelius, reason 6.5, IPAD 2 with lots of soft synths...

    three shelter cats

    Comment


    • #17
      You might also want to consider getting an actual audio interface. I like the M-Audio Fast Track products, but do a little Internet research of your own before you buy. The Fast Track (I have the Ultra) is a USB device to which you attach instruments, microphones, and/or a MIDI device and it sends the data it receives to your PC for recording. It will have driver software of its own that you install so there is no confusion as to what drivers you should be looking for or installing. Once you connect a device like a Fast Track to your PC and then connect the MIDI output of your e-drums to the MIDI input of the Fast Track, your recording software will see an available MIDI device that you can record (channel 10 is the MIDI channel to have the recording software listening on I guess).

      The important thing to realize here is that MIDI data is not the same as an actual sound. You can't hear a MIDI event...it is just a tiny packet of data that tells your DAW software that a drum pad was struck and with what velocity/intensity. It is then up to a synthesizer to take that MIDI event and associate a sound with it so you can actually hear it. DAW software is designed so that you can apply synthesizers as "effects" on the recorded track of data. If you apply a synthesizer and then attach a drum sound to it, you will hear a drum hit. If you attach a violin sound to it, you will hear a very sharp, quick violin sound. Etc.

      There are entire software drum synth/sample packages (ala BFD) you can buy that allow you to simulate all kinds of different drum kits, much like what is happening internally in the TD-4 sound module itself. These can get expensive, but they are very effective and flexible.

      The alternative to recording MIDI is to attach the audio output of your TD-4 to one of the audio inputs on the Fast Track, pick a drum kit from the TD-4 sound module, and record the synthesized drum kit directly as actual sound data. You won't be able to change which kit was used after the fact (like you could with MIDI data), but you can still apply all the usual post-processing to it (EQ, compression, reverb, modulation effects, etc.). Both approaches are easier than mic'ing the drum amp since you don't have to worry about mic placement or room acoustics or the quality of your mic or amp.

      Sorry if some of this was stuff you already knew/understood. It sounded to me like this was all rather new to you so I didn't want to assume anything.
      Complete Beginner

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by zslane View Post
        You might also want to consider getting an actual audio interface. I like the M-Audio Fast Track products, but do a little Internet research of your own before you buy. The Fast Track (I have the Ultra) is a USB device to which you attach instruments, microphones, and/or a MIDI device and it sends the data it receives to your PC for recording. It will have driver software of its own that you install so there is no confusion as to what drivers you should be looking for or installing. Once you connect a device like a Fast Track to your PC and then connect the MIDI output of your e-drums to the MIDI input of the Fast Track, your recording software will see an available MIDI device that you can record (channel 10 is the MIDI channel to have the recording software listening on I guess).

        The important thing to realize here is that MIDI data is not the same as an actual sound. You can't hear a MIDI event...it is just a tiny packet of data that tells your DAW software that a drum pad was struck and with what velocity/intensity. It is then up to a synthesizer to take that MIDI event and associate a sound with it so you can actually hear it. DAW software is designed so that you can apply synthesizers as "effects" on the recorded track of data. If you apply a synthesizer and then attach a drum sound to it, you will hear a drum hit. If you attach a violin sound to it, you will hear a very sharp, quick violin sound. Etc.

        There are entire software drum synth/sample packages (ala BFD) you can buy that allow you to simulate all kinds of different drum kits, much like what is happening internally in the TD-4 sound module itself. These can get expensive, but they are very effective and flexible.

        The alternative to recording MIDI is to attach the audio output of your TD-4 to one of the audio inputs on the Fast Track, pick a drum kit from the TD-4 sound module, and record the synthesized drum kit directly as actual sound data. You won't be able to change which kit was used after the fact (like you could with MIDI data), but you can still apply all the usual post-processing to it (EQ, compression, reverb, modulation effects, etc.). Both approaches are easier than mic'ing the drum amp since you don't have to worry about mic placement or room acoustics or the quality of your mic or amp.

        Sorry if some of this was stuff you already knew/understood. It sounded to me like this was all rather new to you so I didn't want to assume anything.
        Thanks a lot for all this information, a lot of things I did not know. As you concluded right, I am really new to all of this. Have been drumming since I was 6, but never actually owned an electric kit nor did I try to record any MIDI.

        Concluding from your post, I will have to spend more money on an external MIDI device. That's a shame, because I am a poor college kid who spend all his money on this TD4K. Is there nothing like a free/cheap virtual MIDI device I can install on my PC?

        However I wanna thank you again for the pile of information you gave! Much appreciated!

        Big up

        Rob

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by robdemelker View Post
          Thanks a lot for all this information, a lot of things I did not know. As you concluded right, I am really new to all of this. Have been drumming since I was 6, but never actually owned an electric kit nor did I try to record any MIDI.

          Concluding from your post, I will have to spend more money on an external MIDI device. That's a shame, because I am a poor college kid who spend all his money on this TD4K. Is there nothing like a free/cheap virtual MIDI device I can install on my PC?

          However I wanna thank you again for the pile of information you gave! Much appreciated!

          Big up

          Rob
          Well, I suppose the MIDI-to-USB cable can be thought of as a "cheap MIDI adapter" and might, with the correct drivers, take care of your immediate needs. But a decent audio interface, even a relatively inexpensive one like the Fast Track or Fast Track Pro, will make your life easier and give you more options. I would recommend saving up some cash, even if it takes a couple of months, and getting an audio interface rather than trying to find cheaper alternatives that, ultimately I think, will just frustrate you.

          Even if you do find a cheap way of getting your PC to recognize the e-drums as a MIDI device, you will still need some sort of drum synth sample library so that the MIDI events you generate when you play can actually make audible sound from the PC. There are freeware options out there, but finding good ones can be a chore. Commercial drum libraries can be very good, but they will require you to spend extra cash you clearly don't have. That's why an audio interface is a good choice because it allows you to bypass MIDI all together and just record the synthesized drum kits straight from the TD-4 itself into your PC. You could possibly accomplish this by plugging the audio output of the TD-4 to the line-in on your PC's sound card, but I am willing to bet that your PC's sound chips won't be nearly as good at this as even the cheapest standalone audio interface.
          Last edited by zslane; 02-14-10, 06:48 PM.
          Complete Beginner

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by zslane View Post
            Well, I suppose the MIDI-to-USB cable can be thought of as a "cheap MIDI adapter" and might, with the correct drivers, take care of your immediate needs. But a decent audio interface, even a relatively inexpensive one like the Fast Track or Fast Track Pro, will make your life easier and give you more options. I would recommend saving up some cash, even if it takes a couple of months, and getting an audio interface rather than trying to find cheaper alternatives that, ultimately I think, will just frustrate you.

            Even if you do find a cheap way of getting your PC to recognize the e-drums as a MIDI device, you will still need some sort of drum synth sample library so that the MIDI events you generate when you play can actually make audible sound from the PC. There are freeware options out there, but finding good ones can be a chore. Commercial drum libraries can be very good, but they will require you to spend extra cash you clearly don't have. That's why an audio interface is a good choice because it allows you to bypass MIDI all together and just record the synthesized drum kits straight from the TD-4 itself into your PC. You could possibly accomplish this by plugging the audio output of the TD-4 to the line-in on your PC's sound card, but I am willing to bet that your PC's sound chips won't be nearly as good at this as even the cheapest standalone audio interface.
            What will I have to pay to purchase a Fast Track or a Fast Track pro. And will that provide for everything I need? When I have something like the Fast Track I just plug it in and use it right away?

            Thanks again for your help.

            Cheers

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by zslane View Post
              but I am willing to bet that your PC's sound chips won't be nearly as good at this as even the cheapest standalone audio interface.
              not to mention the whole latency issue

              Originally posted by robdemelker View Post
              What will I have to pay to purchase a Fast Track or a Fast Track pro. And will that provide for everything I need? When I have something like the Fast Track I just plug it in and use it right away?

              Thanks again for your help.

              Cheers

              You are still going to need to know how to install things correctly, and to use whatever software you decide to use for recording, including how to arm tracks, how to configure inputs etc. You arent going to escape without some reading and some study, but we will be here to answer your questions.
              TD9+6v module, KD-8, custom Diamond Electronic 12" snare + 2x8" + 2x10" toms, PD-85, 4xPD8, 2xCY8, CY-5, CY-12r/c, Pearl P902 double pedals, Diamond Electronic COWBELL!
              HPD-10 ATH-50M phones and 4 Vex Packs for the TD-9

              Gibson Les Paul. + pod xtl, Norman acoustic, Fender J-Bass + gt10b

              Clavia Nord Stage 2 Synth/Stage Piano Samson SR850 'phones

              cubase, garritan personal orchestra, JABB, symphonic choirs, Sibelius, reason 6.5, IPAD 2 with lots of soft synths...

              three shelter cats

              Comment


              • #22
                All I did was get a $100 USB recording interface and I could record right away. It's the Line 6 UX2. Normally a guitar recording interface but works fine with drums etc.

                It won't be as good of quality as MIDI recording, but I'm gathering this is just a hobby for now.

                Here's what I normally do.

                1) Record a track using the Quick Rec feature on your kit. You can use the metronome, the click won't be audible during playback.

                2) Once you have your drum track, connect a 1/4" jack from the headphone jack to the Line In of your USB audio interface.

                2.5) Launch the software that comes with your USB interface (may not be needed for all USB interfaces)

                3) Launch your recording software. I use Reaper, which is easy to use and has a nice long free trial. It's also only $60 if you wanna buy it.

                4) Play back your drum track once everything is connected, using the Quick Play feature of your kit. Monitor it through headphones, connected to the audio interface.

                Easy as can be.
                TD-9 - PD8X (snare), 2x PD85 (tom1 & 2), PD105 (tom3), PD8 (tom4) 2x CY8, KD8, $10 Westbury single kicker.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by 200 Motels View Post
                  All I did was get a $100 USB recording interface and I could record right away. It's the Line 6 UX2. Normally a guitar recording interface but works fine with drums etc.

                  It won't be as good of quality as MIDI recording, but I'm gathering this is just a hobby for now.

                  Here's what I normally do.

                  1) Record a track using the Quick Rec feature on your kit. You can use the metronome, the click won't be audible during playback.

                  2) Once you have your drum track, connect a 1/4" jack from the headphone jack to the Line In of your USB audio interface.

                  2.5) Launch the software that comes with your USB interface (may not be needed for all USB interfaces)

                  3) Launch your recording software. I use Reaper, which is easy to use and has a nice long free trial. It's also only $60 if you wanna buy it.

                  4) Play back your drum track once everything is connected, using the Quick Play feature of your kit. Monitor it through headphones, connected to the audio interface.

                  Easy as can be.
                  clever work around for the problem of how to play quick rec's on your computer....

                  that 1/4 jack should be stereo, btw...
                  TD9+6v module, KD-8, custom Diamond Electronic 12" snare + 2x8" + 2x10" toms, PD-85, 4xPD8, 2xCY8, CY-5, CY-12r/c, Pearl P902 double pedals, Diamond Electronic COWBELL!
                  HPD-10 ATH-50M phones and 4 Vex Packs for the TD-9

                  Gibson Les Paul. + pod xtl, Norman acoustic, Fender J-Bass + gt10b

                  Clavia Nord Stage 2 Synth/Stage Piano Samson SR850 'phones

                  cubase, garritan personal orchestra, JABB, symphonic choirs, Sibelius, reason 6.5, IPAD 2 with lots of soft synths...

                  three shelter cats

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by robdemelker View Post
                    What will I have to pay to purchase a Fast Track or a Fast Track pro. And will that provide for everything I need? When I have something like the Fast Track I just plug it in and use it right away?

                    Thanks again for your help.

                    Cheers
                    You already have your DAW (recording and editing) software with Adobe Audition, so the only piece really missing is a decent audio interface. Once you have that you will have everything you need to get started. You basically plug it in and install the drivers and you are ready to go. (I use REAPER, by the way, but if you are comfortable with something else, then use that. If, however, you find Audition too limited in some way, take a look at REAPER. It is professional-grade software at a hobbyist price--$60 after a 30-day free trial period).

                    A Fast Track can be purchased for $99, but it only has audio inputs for an instrument or microphone, it doesn't have MIDI input. The Fast Track Pro (and its equivalent competitors) can be found for under $200 (a quick web search turned up an online store that sells it for $164 with free shipping) and it has basically one of everything and may be the best piece of audio hardware you can get for yourself.

                    The beauty of an external device like the Fast Track (Pro) is that you can use it with any computer you may have now or choose to switch to in the future, as long as it has a USB 2.0 port. It's not like an internal PCI card which is fine for desktop machines, but useless if you want to use it with a laptop. And you may one day realize the wonderous potential of a highly mobile recording rig, so don't discount the value of laptop compatibility.

                    I do recommend reading up as much as you can on the art and science of home recording with a computer. As wonderful as all this equipment is, there are quite a few technical issues you really need to understand to make the most of it, but once you get that knowledge under your belt, you'll be unstoppable!
                    Complete Beginner

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Something else that is worth mentioning: monitor speakers. You'll want something to attach to the line (or speaker) outs of the audio interface. They don't have to be expensive audiophile monitor speakers, but your PC's internal speaker simply won't be useful anymore.

                      And here's why: as soon as you connect your audio interface (and install the drivers) you should disable your PC's internal sound card completely. Your audio interface will handle all computer sound duties, which is why you'll need a pair of external speakers, even if they are cheap little desktop speakers, connected to it. You can always upgrade to better speakers in the future, but at least you will have it all set up in a way that is best suited for audio recording/mixing.

                      (Sorry, total brain fart...ignore the comment that was in this spot about passive speakers)
                      Last edited by zslane; 02-15-10, 05:31 PM.
                      Complete Beginner

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Alright, thanks for all the feedback. But I was wondering about something else. Right now I have my kit connected to my PC through MIDI OUT in my TD4k and the USB 2.0 in my PC. MIDI IN is not connected to anything. Should my PC regonize the kit, cause right now I get nothing..

                        Thanks in advance

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by robdemelker View Post
                          Alright, thanks for all the feedback. But I was wondering about something else. Right now I have my kit connected to my PC through MIDI OUT in my TD4k and the USB 2.0 in my PC. MIDI IN is not connected to anything. Should my PC regonize the kit, cause right now I get nothing..

                          Thanks in advance
                          remember, MIDI is not sound, so you only get a sound if you assign a sound generator to the midi signal, a VST of some sort.

                          and there is no midi in on the td4, as you said , and you dont need it for recording purposes....

                          The PC wont recognise your kit, it might recognise the midi to usb cable as being connected. you need some sort of software. like Abletone...and there in ableton will be a midi set up window, where you can select the cable as being an input device.
                          TD9+6v module, KD-8, custom Diamond Electronic 12" snare + 2x8" + 2x10" toms, PD-85, 4xPD8, 2xCY8, CY-5, CY-12r/c, Pearl P902 double pedals, Diamond Electronic COWBELL!
                          HPD-10 ATH-50M phones and 4 Vex Packs for the TD-9

                          Gibson Les Paul. + pod xtl, Norman acoustic, Fender J-Bass + gt10b

                          Clavia Nord Stage 2 Synth/Stage Piano Samson SR850 'phones

                          cubase, garritan personal orchestra, JABB, symphonic choirs, Sibelius, reason 6.5, IPAD 2 with lots of soft synths...

                          three shelter cats

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            It is important to be very precise in the way things are described. When you ask if "the PC will recognize the kit," well, chances are good you aren't quite asking what you mean to ask. Why is that? Because the PC is probably "recognizing" the existance of the MIDI-to-USB connection you have made, but that's as far as it will go on its own.

                            The data flow needs to look like this:

                            DRUMS (MIDI out) -> MIDI-to-USB-cable -> PC (USB in) -> DAW software -> Drum synth plugin -> PC (speakers out) -> Speakers

                            There is a good chance that everything is just fine up to the PC, but in order for the DAW software to "see" your drums, it has to be "told" about them. This usually involves creating a track, setting its input to the USB MIDI device that your adapter cable calls itself, selecting (MIDI) channel 10 for it, and then arming the track. You may even need to enable input monitoring on the track.

                            At that point, all you've done is allow your DAW software to receive MIDI events and, when you hit "record", record them in the track. In order to hear any actual sound, preferably a drum sound in this case, you need to further equip the track with a drum synthesizer plugin so that each MIDI event (e.g., you hitting the snare) will be synthesized into an appropriate audible drum sound. Configuring a drum synth plugin can be easy or complex depending on which one you pick, but I'm guessing you don't have one at all, or you don't know if you do. Without this last piece of the (software) puzzle, you won't hear any drum sounds via MIDI.
                            Last edited by zslane; 02-16-10, 05:06 PM.
                            Complete Beginner

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I should probably mention that MIDI, for all its flexibility, can require a lot of fiddling with initial setups to get everything working correctly.

                              Here's why: when you hit, say, the snare of your kit, the e-drum brain packages up that pad hit into a MIDI message and assigns it a particular "note" number, like 53. This number identifies which pad you hit, in the same manner that a digital piano identifies each key with a number. Things get sticky when the drum synth plugin expects, for instance, a tom hit to arrive as note 53, not a snare hit, and so when you play your snare, you end up hearing a tom sound instead.

                              There doesn't appear to be a MIDI standard that all drum manufacturers and drum synth plugin developers agree on, at least in terms of note numbers. Consequently, you may find you have to do some MIDI "mapping" in your DAW somewhere which lets you translate the note numbers being sent by your kit to the note numbers expected by the drum synth plugin. This mapping may be possible in the drum synth plugin itself, or you may have to insert a separate mapping plugin into the chain before the drum synth plugin.

                              I know all this sounds confusing and it's a lot to take in. But once you get it all straightened out, it'll go more quickly in the future, especially if you can create track templates and presets for this stuff in your DAW app.
                              Complete Beginner

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by robdemelker View Post
                                MIDI IN is not connected to anything.
                                I think it should be. It's the MIDI OUT cable you can't use with a TD-4.

                                You previously said;

                                Originally posted by robdemelker View Post
                                More info: My MIDI IN is connected to my Roland TD4-K. MIDI OUT to nothing.
                                Did you swap the cables since then?

                                Does the MIDI IN indicator on the cable ever light up?

                                Bruce
                                • Roland TD-20+TDW-20, TD-8, SPD-S, PD-105, PD-6/8, CY-5/6/8/12, FD-6/8, KD-7/8, RT-10K, PM-30, DB-90
                                • Hart Acupad, Hart Hammer, Pintech Dingbat, Sony MDR-7505, Shure E2, 512. Pacific CX, Zildjian A Customs.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X