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No Cone and No Hot Spot Mesh Head System

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  • No Cone and No Hot Spot Mesh Head System

    I have heard plenty here about hot spots and have even experienced it myself with my TD-9. I couldn't think of way to get rid of it. However, as I was looking for a new module I ran into HellfireDrums video where he opens an Alesis trigger pad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhhRQ2Zv4mo
    I then saw how they used a piece of circular plastic separated from the drum head and the peizo attached to that plastic to help eliminate hot spots. Watch the video for more information on this.
    I then started to think if there was a way to use this idea to eliminate the hot spot on Roland trigger pads and think I might have done it. I haven't played too much with the trigger pads but I did not notice any hot spots.

    1. I superglue my mesh to part of a real drum head. I mostly take out the center and leave just a little bit for the mesh head to be glued to. My mesh heads are made of solar screens. If you attach them some other way that would be fine.

    2. I then use this foam: 79f9c919681f0e2116725a628e7e7a03.jpg ba2edff117cd8b57d79246d341aefd94.jpg. This foam is actually insullation to place around a pipe. I cut out 4 small rings from it about 1/2" to 3/4" thick as shown here 762eba7c166303905729c673c3c09792.jpg.

    3. I turn the drum head and rim over so I am looking at their underside. 80467ec1727bce1a200426a1013a25a7.jpg. I then take the 4 foam rings and place them around the bottom part of the mesh head b054c3ae3751e7c8e0a2aafe8ea860ff.jpg.
    Last edited by neaceul; 04-15-12, 12:44 AM.
    Roland TD-9, Roland PD-85 (x7), Roland PD-105, Roland KD-120, Roland VH-11, Roland CY-5 (x2), Roland CY-12C (x2), Roland CY-13R (x2), Tama Iron Cobra dual kick pedal, DW 9000 remote hi-hat, Tama Cobra Clutch

  • #2
    4. I then take this shelf liner a791dc17855466ab85254e0db61b589e.jpgd499062d12702f394fa2b8746bb1bc9a.jpg and cut a circle big enough to cover the 4 foam rings and place it on top of them. I tried gluing the foam to the plastic but don't think it worked too well e51381ec0ea5ef09ad1bbef2f442300a.jpg.

    5. I then attached super strong double sided tape on top of the plastic circle directly above the 4 foam rings b6af5266352f36bc5ce900c55dbb92b5.jpg.

    6. This time I used a pet screen (the hardware store near me didn't have solar mesh) and attached it to the tape 481293052ae80b8a0ce3fa5e70581724.jpg.
    Last edited by neaceul; 04-15-12, 02:27 PM.
    Roland TD-9, Roland PD-85 (x7), Roland PD-105, Roland KD-120, Roland VH-11, Roland CY-5 (x2), Roland CY-12C (x2), Roland CY-13R (x2), Tama Iron Cobra dual kick pedal, DW 9000 remote hi-hat, Tama Cobra Clutch

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    • #3
      7. THIS IS IMPORTANT:Make sure to attach or glue or whatever the pet screen to the drum head rim and/or mesh head it is attached to. This pet screen MUST BE LIMITED IN SLACK. If it is loose when you place it to be tightened on the drum you will not get as good of a response from the piezo.

      8. I then attached a peizo to the center of the pet screen with the super strong double sided tape 17d1ebd34509efdbd24bb67785e29a81.jpg. You mjight even think of doing this before attaching the pet screen to the drum head rim this way you are not pressing down on the pet screen and creating slack.

      9. Turn mesh head over and attach to drum shell and tighten as usual. You may have to adjust sensitivity, threshold, etc. to fit your play style.

      Like I said I didn't get to play much after completing it but was very happy with the results so far. I will keep you informed of how it is going. Since this is the first time I've seen this done I am sure you all out there will find ways to improve it. Hope you find this interesting and hope others find it useful.



      Happy drumming
      Last edited by neaceul; 04-15-12, 02:28 PM.
      Roland TD-9, Roland PD-85 (x7), Roland PD-105, Roland KD-120, Roland VH-11, Roland CY-5 (x2), Roland CY-12C (x2), Roland CY-13R (x2), Tama Iron Cobra dual kick pedal, DW 9000 remote hi-hat, Tama Cobra Clutch

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      • #4
        Interesting, but only the pictures from your first post show up.

        So, I can't completely visualise what you are doing along the other posts.
        A2E DIY Dixon kit. FSR HiHats. DTX700 + eDrum Modules. Yamaha + XM Cymbals. VSTs: AD, SD, DrumMic'a
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        • #5
          Originally posted by perceval View Post
          Interesting, but only the pictures from your first post show up.

          So, I can't completely visualise what you are doing along the other posts.
          Me either. Yes...please fix the pics. This sounds very interesting.

          A lot of Hellfire's builds are based on reflection plates that have been around for a very long time and do not have the "hot spot" phenomenon.
          8 piece DIY Acrylic http://www.quartzpercussions.com/, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions http://stealthdrums.com/Home_Page.html, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid http://drumagination.com/ , Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting http://jeredsystems.com/index.php
          http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

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          • #6
            See if the images come up now.
            Roland TD-9, Roland PD-85 (x7), Roland PD-105, Roland KD-120, Roland VH-11, Roland CY-5 (x2), Roland CY-12C (x2), Roland CY-13R (x2), Tama Iron Cobra dual kick pedal, DW 9000 remote hi-hat, Tama Cobra Clutch

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            • #7
              Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
              A lot of Hellfire's builds are based on reflection plates that have been around for a very long time and do not have the "hot spot" phenomenon.
              I don't think I've seen his reflection plate ideas. Where can I find them?
              Roland TD-9, Roland PD-85 (x7), Roland PD-105, Roland KD-120, Roland VH-11, Roland CY-5 (x2), Roland CY-12C (x2), Roland CY-13R (x2), Tama Iron Cobra dual kick pedal, DW 9000 remote hi-hat, Tama Cobra Clutch

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              • #8
                hi there. i have a question. how many of view have actually experienced hot spots? by themselves. and how distinct where they? i ask that for 2 reasons. first my drum teacher has a td-9 (apart from his acoustic kit) and i have played there numerous times. never have i experienced a hot spot. secondly i am thinking of purchasing a pd-125. for its price it is ridiculous for hot spot to appear. and i am kind of an unbeliever. it reminds me of the urban legend everyone saying that nylon tipped sticks are far worse than wooden tips. and when i used a nylon stick in my acoustic cymbals i was blown away from the awesomeness.
                i have no reason not to believe you people of cousre, i do not own a roland, but i am kind of sceptical towards all the hot spot fuzz. i mean, roland guys are surelly not idiots, right? they wouldnt sell such expensive pads or kits in general, with sensors in the middle, if they were problematic?
                just my thoughts. and i ask because i want to learn. thats all. dont take it the wrong way please
                proud owner of 2box drumit5 mk2
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by neaceul View Post
                  I don't think I've seen his reflection plate ideas. Where can I find them?
                  Yep...I can see the pics now thanks.

                  Just search "reflection plate" with this engine..........

                  http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=01...85:ld78rt83m3w

                  You'll get lots of hits.
                  8 piece DIY Acrylic http://www.quartzpercussions.com/, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions http://stealthdrums.com/Home_Page.html, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid http://drumagination.com/ , Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting http://jeredsystems.com/index.php
                  http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

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                  • #10
                    Ok I've had a few days to play with this "coneless" system. I am very pleased with it. After adjusting sensitivity, threshold, etc. the drums are triggering very well with no problems.

                    Two minor things that need to also be done:

                    1. Make sure you secure the peizo on well. I had one come untaped from the mesh head. I then firmly put it back and haven't had any more fall off.

                    2. Make sure to put tape or some other "support" over the solder where it attaches to the peizo. I left the wires hanging. After some time the vibrations from playing the drums caused one of the wires to come loose from the peizo. After putting a little piece of electrical tape over the soder and taped the part of the wire to the inside part of the drum shell there has been no more wires breaking off of the peizo.

                    Overall I am glad I have done this. I am sure there are ways to improve it. One thing I am wondering is is the circle made of shelf liner is needed? I used it to help send more "consistant" vibrations from the mesh head to the peizo, but I wonder if the pet screen on the bottom would give the same result?
                    Roland TD-9, Roland PD-85 (x7), Roland PD-105, Roland KD-120, Roland VH-11, Roland CY-5 (x2), Roland CY-12C (x2), Roland CY-13R (x2), Tama Iron Cobra dual kick pedal, DW 9000 remote hi-hat, Tama Cobra Clutch

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                    • #11
                      EXclellent feed, but take into account reflection plates or similar are not good friens of positional sensing !! Final decision will lay onto your playing stayle.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by makoki View Post
                        EXclellent feed, but take into account reflection plates or similar are not good friens of positional sensing !! Final decision will lay onto your playing stayle.
                        Yes, probably works well but if you're into positional sensing it won't work like this. If you're happy with the results thats all that really matters.

                        BurningAmbition: Hotspots are no myth although they can be dealt with fairly easily with all the adjustments available in the module. Even different drum sounds seem to react differently to the hotspot issue. For a while I went as far as running the snare/rim trigger through 2 external compressor/limiters then into the td-20 with very good success. That way it limits the trigger signal before it triggers a sound in the brain vs. what the TD's internal compression appears to do. These days, if it starts to show up to the point it bothers me, I just make some tweaks to the td, retune my snare head and I don't notice it again for a while.

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                        • #13
                          Actually after what you said I played around with seeing how it affected positional sensing. I don't think I've noticed a difference. When played close to the edge of the drum the drum volume drops and gets louder as you move to the center of the drum. I tried to to rolls like they do on the videos demonstrating positional sensing and it seems to be acting normal for me.
                          Roland TD-9, Roland PD-85 (x7), Roland PD-105, Roland KD-120, Roland VH-11, Roland CY-5 (x2), Roland CY-12C (x2), Roland CY-13R (x2), Tama Iron Cobra dual kick pedal, DW 9000 remote hi-hat, Tama Cobra Clutch

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                          • #14
                            TD-9 doesn't support positional sensing anyway - you need TD-12 or up.

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