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made e-cymbal crash 2-zone+ choke for yamaha DTXP4, help me!

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  • made e-cymbal crash 2-zone+ choke for yamaha DTXP4, help me!

    hi guys,
    I write to you because I think that you are a "guru".
    I have a great problem. I started to convert my acoustic drum in an electronic and I have bought a yamaha dtxp4 V2 module. I have made a mono zone cymbals and it work perfectly!!
    now I would like to built a crash 2-zone with choke. are you agree that crash input on yamaha dtxp4 are 3-zone switch/piezo/switch? ok how can I do it? I tried to made this simple circuit but it doesn't work http://www.google.it/imgres?q=piezo+...:0&tx=56&ty=34
    I tried to read some of your posts, but i dont speak english well and my head go crazy!!
    are someone here that can help me with simple words and have yamaha module and e-cymbal homemade like I would like?
    if is not possible do a 2-zone with choke, it's ok even a 1-zone with choke 'cause i'm interested in chokable cymbals. but if it's possible make a cymbal with edge, cup and switch, will be better!!! it's enough a simple picture handmade!!!
    thanks thanks thanks to all!!! hoping that my english will not a disaster!!
    Fabio

  • #2
    http://www.drumlessons.com/drum-foru...r-roland-kits/

    Basically yamaha use a slightly different wiring method for getting there 3 zones on cymbals. On one of the switch zones (either the edge or the bell, you'll have to look at the pictures on the link above), they use a resistor so the module can notice the difference between the bell or the rim. I cant seem to find the actual wiring diagram for you, so i hope the link will suffice for now.
    Hohner A-E Converted Drumkit, Internal Quartz Cone Triggers, Z-ED Single Ply Mesh Drum Heads,
    Alesis Trigger IO, Alesis SR16 Drum Machine, Session Pro DD505 Single Zone Cymbals, BFD2

    Comment


    • #3
      Believe its mentioned in part two of the above link. hope it helps
      Hohner A-E Converted Drumkit, Internal Quartz Cone Triggers, Z-ED Single Ply Mesh Drum Heads,
      Alesis Trigger IO, Alesis SR16 Drum Machine, Session Pro DD505 Single Zone Cymbals, BFD2

      Comment


      • #4
        thanks e-studio!!
        i've read the post and something I understand!!! but the problem is that i've not yamaha cymbals and i cant modify them, but i must made cymbals with real ones!! and the circuit to do them is complicated for me...
        so I made this that you can modify where it wrong:

        I miss a resistor even on the bell?? sorry for my questions but I want play drum and now I'm stopped cause I'm without cymbals!! :( please help me!!! thanks again...
        Fabio

        Comment


        • #5
          If you have cymbals with two or three piezos to make two or three zones for a DTXpress IV then you need some circuitry to turn those into piezo switch signals for the module. See the Keith Raper sticky thread.

          Even then, you are going to have to do something different to get choking. My circuit helps solve the problem of multiple piezos but doesn't help with choking. That is because it uses a piezo to trigger the switch. To choke you need a switch closure without triggering a piezo. The best way of doin that is probably the touch switch method I have seen posted on here.

          Keith
          Keith Raper
          http://www.dtxpander.co.uk
          http://www.kdel.co.uk

          Comment


          • #6
            hei Keith, thanks a lot!! I cant find your circuit, but if I remember, I think it was made with 2 piezos but I dont remember the choke!!
            (post me the link to your circuit please )
            my plan:

            I would like to create a ride with bell (piezo) and bow (piezo) cause I will use a tom input (2 piezos) that is splittable into 2 mono. i think in this case I must use your circuit otherwise I will have crosstalks, right?

            then I would like to create crash with: bell, edge and choke. I know that Yamaha DTXP4 have the inputs of crash 3zone made switch/piezo/switch. i must use your circuit also in this case?

            probably I am confused cause electronic things are not for me, but if you can explain something to do and what things i must buy, i finally do my crashes!!! sorry for may english again!!!
            Fabio

            Comment


            • #7
              DTXpress IV doesn't need my circuit for the tom inputs because they are dual mono. You may get some crosstalk issues though - I have never used a DTXpress IV so don't know. You may be able to reduce the crosstalk by correct settings of the "specific rejection".

              Bell/edge/choke is not so easy. As I said, the choke has to be a switch closure WITHOUT a piezo hit which is why the touch switch idea is probably the best for the choke. With my circuit you can combine the piezos for the crash input.

              The sticky is here : http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthre...aper-s-Circuit

              My circuit is here: http://www.dtxpander.co.uk/DKDI-21.pdf

              3 zone here http://www.dtxpander.co.uk/DKDI-31.pdf

              Keith.
              Last edited by keith1200rs; 03-13-12, 03:52 PM.
              Keith Raper
              http://www.dtxpander.co.uk
              http://www.kdel.co.uk

              Comment


              • #8
                hi Keith,
                ok for ride i need only 2 piezos, right?

                but i still not understand for crash... i tried to do a normal open circuit with two wires, hit the piezo and close immediately the wires, but it doesnt work!! why?? I've not other ideas...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Which wires did you close? You have to connect the ring to the sleeve for choking (i.e. not short out the piezo). The piezo is on the tip to the sleeve.

                  Keith.
                  Keith Raper
                  http://www.dtxpander.co.uk
                  http://www.kdel.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    hi Keith,
                    I have follow this diagram http://www.google.it/imgres?q=piezo+...:0&tx=56&ty=34
                    I have used a piece of lead to touch sleeve and ring (like green wires) after I have hit the piezo, but the sound still to continue!!! whats wrong?

                    if I want a 2zone crash, I must use this diagram? http://edrum.for.free.fr/static/pict...imDetector.jpg and use the main piezo for bow and the aux piezo for the bell? in this way it will work in the input of the crash that is switch/piezo/switch?

                    the voice "aftertouch" in the module must be ON or OFF?? it's necessary??

                    I started to understand something!!! thank you very much!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HumanDrum View Post
                      hi Keith,
                      I have follow this diagram http://www.google.it/imgres?q=piezo+...:0&tx=56&ty=34
                      I have used a piece of lead to touch sleeve and ring (like green wires) after I have hit the piezo, but the sound still to continue!!! whats wrong?
                      That seems right. Have you set up the trigger settings on the module so the module knows it is dual zone?

                      With regards to the 2 zone crash, I would always recommend my diagrams for the Yamaha modules. The diagram you posted may work with a Yamaha module with a DIY cymbal but it misses off the diode to couple the aux piezo through to the tip. You could try both ways.

                      I am not familiar with "aftertouch" - it is only a MIDI function on the DTXpress III so doesn't affect the module sounds.

                      Keith
                      Keith Raper
                      http://www.dtxpander.co.uk
                      http://www.kdel.co.uk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        mmmm interesting.... and what are these settings to change? it's not automatic?
                        whats the difference between the two diagrams? but my cymbals are not DIY??
                        in your diagram, for choke I must only put two wires (one at sleeve and one at ring) and close circuit touching them togheter?
                        and one piezo on the bell and one on the bow, right? there are not crosstalk cause one piezo work like a switch, right?
                        and in your diagram whats JP1 and 100k VR1?? i know transistors, resistors, schottky diode, but i dont know this two components!!
                        if you reply to me, now i've go to sleep (in italy are 1:30 am!!!) and tomorrow i'll go to buy all things!!! grazie grazie grazie!!! sei molto gentile!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is getting a little muddled. I thought on your first post you said your cymbals were DIY? You made mono cymbals and now want to make 2/3 zone with choke? I assume all your cymbals only have piezos - no switches?

                          The diagrams I post are the latest ones I use with the latest component values and Schottky diodes instead of normal signal diodes for improved sensitivity. I also include some jumpers - JP1 etc - which are to allow people to experiment easily without having to solder components. In your case you can simply build it with D3 present or shorted.

                          VR1 is a variable resistor or trim pot. They usually look like this http://www.bourns.com/ProductLine.as...rs_single_turn

                          The module doesn't know what pads you connect - you have to tell it in the trigger setup menu. Go to the trigger edit part of the manual and look for the pad type (TRIG2) menu.

                          If you use the TOM inputs then you cannot choke and you must use a separate piezo for each sound.

                          For the normal crash/ride inputs the module only expects a single piezo but it can handle 1 or 2 switches as well. When you hit the cymbal it relies on the switch closing as well as the piezo vibration to create the appropriate sound. This is different to how DIY (or some manufacturers) cymbals work. They can use 2 or 3 piezos but there the objective is to isolate the piezos.

                          If you want to use a pad with more than one piezo on the crash/ride on the DTXpress then you need some circuitry to convert the signals from piezo/piezo to piezo/switch. You still WON'T get choking ability.

                          You can add choking to the ride/crash by simply adding a switch from the ring to the sleeve of the connector to the module. This will work even with my circuit - the extra switch will simply be in parallel with the transistor switch of my circuit.

                          Keith.
                          Keith Raper
                          http://www.dtxpander.co.uk
                          http://www.kdel.co.uk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            hi Keith!
                            maybe I have done a bit 'of confusion... reset all.
                            I have brass cymbals and I want to convert them into e-cymbals.

                            I would build a ride with only the bell and bow, to insert in the ride input of the module (that supports 3zone: S / P / S). I have to use your circuit?
                            Then I would build a crash with a bell, bow and choke. I always use your circuit? The crash input is also 3zone (S / P / S).
                            I build the choke putting two plates connected to the ring and sleeve, and so it should work, right?
                            then the JP1 is not a component, but only one wire to give it a try? I do not have to put it, but I just have to put the Schottky diode?
                            maybe now I understand it, what do you think?
                            Sorry if I stress your life, but I am prevented with electronics! and you're the only one who is helping me!
                            Thanks for now, I'll keep updated!
                            Fabio

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HumanDrum View Post
                              hi Keith!
                              I would build a ride with only the bell and bow, to insert in the ride input of the module (that supports 3zone: S / P / S). I have to use your circuit?
                              Yes.

                              Originally posted by HumanDrum View Post
                              Then I would build a crash with a bell, bow and choke. I always use your circuit?
                              Yes

                              Originally posted by HumanDrum View Post
                              I build the choke putting two plates connected to the ring and sleeve, and so it should work, right?
                              Yes. You connect your switch to the output of my circuit i.e. the input to the module.

                              Originally posted by HumanDrum View Post
                              then the JP1 is not a component, but only one wire to give it a try? I do not have to put it, but I just have to put the Schottky diode?
                              Yes, it is just a wire. I use jumpers like you see in computers b1072368222618fa5ed0ee0a2c6529f9.jpg

                              Don't worry about asking questions - I realise it isn't straightforward.

                              Keith.
                              Keith Raper
                              http://www.dtxpander.co.uk
                              http://www.kdel.co.uk

                              Comment

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